Quingdao
 

Ok so this will sound a little cheesy however in the words of James T Kirk "I don't believe in an un-winnable scenario" however playing in the Chinese Kilo, I detect the US Subs and have tried a variety of approaches but they always stage unprovoked attacks sinking the whole battle group and then finally me. I'l admit that I'm a complete noob (and now seriously miss my Akula MkII) but is there any way to win in this scenario?

I remember trying this as the Kilo once and promptly trying it again on the US side. It just felt like a total goat#$%^. I just opened it in the editor, and now I know that's exactly what this is.

Honestly, to win this with the Kilo you'll probably need to use Kirk's techniques from the Kobayashi Maru. Here's why:

1. Neither your submarine, nor the CVBG, has any SUBROC capability (not that it would matter, the water is probably too shallow anyway).

2. None of the lead escorts have torpedo tubes.

3. Your TEST (or Yu-8) torpedoes are no match for ADCAPs

4. No helicopters are airborne or even on alert.

and worst of all

5. The Chinese side is set to Wartime ROE for this exercise! This is where it all falls apart. The US subs will not fire unless fired upon, but if they are detected the Chinese will engage even though they are not prepared to fight effectively. Engaging the subs is suicide.

5 looks like a mistake by the SCS mission designer, but considering there are no detection goals set vs. the US submarines, apparently when playing as the Kilo the entire point of this mission is to sink 2 688Is. I'm reminded of the voice acting from Company of Heroes when you tell an engineer to attack a Tiger tank: "Are you high, sir?"

Anyways, the non-Kirk solution to this is to aggressively scout ahead of the fleet and find the US subs first. The US side is set to peacetime ROE and won't fire until fired upon. So you could, in theory, walk right up to one and put a TEST in him before he could respond. If you find one far enough away and promote him, there is a chance your fleet might prepare a helo in time to engage. You can also use your torpedoes as "suppression fire," not trying to kill the target but just drive him away, giving your ships more time to get a helo ready. I don't know that this can work, but it's the best I can think of.

But if Kirk can alter the programming... so you too can alter the scenario. Simply switching Red side to Peacetime ROE should fix this scenario and make it play out like one would imagine it should--as an exercise being spied on rather than a hot war. The downside of this is that it would make the mission pointless. You won't benefit from detecting the US spies and nothing will happen from mission start until the Chinluk (or should I say Varyag?) arrives at its destination and the mission ends.

You could also add airborne helos, or just put some on alert 5 so they'll be ready to engage the US subs if they are detected, and that could make a huge tactical difference. Fighting the subs is still an uphill battle like this, but the battle group won't be doing it with its hands tied behind its back.

Cool thanks for that... but I remember that in Subcommand as the Akula there was an assignment where you had to chase off some 688s by aggressively hunting them and chasing them off by pinging them is there a code or a script for that? (and how do you edit campaign missions)

Cool thanks for that... but I remember that in Subcommand as the Akula there was an assignment where you had to chase off some 688s by aggressively hunting them and chasing them off by pinging them is there a code or a script for that? (and how do you edit campaign missions)

Also I noticed that I can get upto 17nts under water but that kills the battery, but canonly do 10 on the surface (i.e. the surface performance is worse than the sub surface) as a vet of SH3,4 & 5 is this is a little disconcerting is it right, and will the US attack as soon as they are detected or only once I've uploaded them to the link?

The Chinese will attack the US when they detect the US (and that includes being given a link). The US will attack once they are attacked.

You can simulate driving someone off with pinging using an approach trigger set to an "intimidating" range (say 5nmi) combined with a doctrine that tests for the target's detection of your active sonar. Couple that trigger with a script that changes the target's course to one that leads it out of the area and a change the speed to a reasonable transit speed.

To edit a campaign mission, just find the command "load campaign mission" in the drop-down menu (probably File).

I'l give that a go, though on the last attempt I simply attempted to charge ahead of the battle group into the 688s and get there quickly, so I revved up the engines to 19nts only to be shot and killed by a US torp (wasn't happy)

a short story
 

The Captain of the Lin San Liu, grimaced, he didn't share his frustration with the rest of the crew, but he was pretty sure they'd all know why. They'd been tasked with detecting any possible threats to the Chinluk, Chinas new carrier, while she was on her way out to sea for trials and a shake down. Ideally this would have means being out ahead of the group, with the subs strung out along the route in a loose cordon, ... quiet enough to be undetected yet able to detect and if required to engage any one stupid enough to try and threaten the small task force (although the ROE specified that he was not to fire at them until it was probably too late). Yet thanks to some idiot at command he and the other subs were in the middle of the task force and slowly being left behind, .. it was that or travel so fast that his sensors were useless ... he cursed under his breath. Oh well they were still 20nm from the end of his escort duty, in a short time the task force would be some one else's problem and he could relax. Thanks to the floating wire, and the uplink data he was receiving all was well. Then came a disturbing report, "sir sonar contact bearing 115" ... Damn that didn't correspond with any of the uplink data, and if it were a surface contact if probably would have been detected by now, then as quickly as it had been acquired it vanished... this was not looking good. He gave it three agonising minutes, still nothing ,,, defiantly not good. With all the bother up in Russia, an unknown variable like this did not bode well. He needed more and so took a snap decision, and gave the order " MAKE TURNS FOR 2KNTS and launch the UUV". Once it was launched the unknown contact was quickly squired, and worse still there was almost certainly two of them. The uplink data was still providing date on neutral shipping in the area, this really didn't look good. HE had no choice he reported the present of the two probably submerged and assumed hostile targets on the uplink and watched as the task force went to high alert and launched its Helos. as the helos descended upon the unknown target all hell broke loose. it launched three torpedoes and a couple of missiles which, fortunately the rest of the group had been ready for and quickly evaded, and destroyed them. In the meantime the Helos deployed their asw torps and BOOM one dead sub. Through all this the second assumed hostile began evasive manoeuvres and began to career off at 35KNTS giving the Lin San Liu its first complete signature ... US 688... it's speed was too much for the kilo to follow and she was soon lost to sensor around 17NM away still travelling at speed, and the Chinluk and her escorts all made it away safely, however this did not look good .. had the Americans Just fired the first shot in a war against the Peoples republic of China... ah well so much for relaxing