SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - 250 years ago today........

SUBSIM Radio Room Forums (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/index.php)

- General Topics (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=175)

- - 250 years ago today........ (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=176764)

250 years ago today........

Battle of Torgau, November 3rd, 1760.

Frederick the Great's last battle...

Quote:

Noon found Frederick's main army floundering in the woods to the north of Daun's position. At this time, Zieten's advance guard became embroiled with the Croatian light infantry belonging to Lacy's corps. Daun alertly detected the Prussian maneuver and he shifted his first line to the north side of the heights. Soon an artillery duel erupted between Lacy and Zieten. Hearing the cannon fire and fearing that Zieten was being mauled, the Prussian king decided to launch his attack prematurely, with ten battalions of grenadiers. Concentrated Austrian cannon fire and musketry caused the loss of 5,000 Prussians in the span of one-half hour.

When the main body of infantry arrived on the scene, it was also sent into the uphill assault. Daun was forced to commit his reserves to defeat the second attack. The Prussian cavalry led by General the Duke of Holstein tried to break the Austrian line, but it also failed. A spent canister round hit Frederick in the chest and he withdrew to the village of Elsnig in considerable distress. The king spent the night sitting on the bottom step of the church altar waiting for news from the battlefield. Daun had been wounded in the foot and around sunset went to Torgau to have his wound dressed.The Austrian commander sent General Charles Flynn to deliver a preliminary victory dispatch to Empress Maria Theresa of Austria in Vienna.

The tide of the battle turned at dusk, when Zieten's columns, who had been engaged pointlessly with Lacy, finally launched a major assault. Shifting his corps to the west, he found an unguarded causeway between two ponds and threw five battalions into the gap. Zieten followed up the initial breach with the balance of his infantry and soon his corps gained a foothold on the heights. Hearing Zieten's battle, Lieutenant General J. D. von Hülsen led the survivors of the main army in a final attack. Taken from the north and south, the Austrian lines finally began to crumble.

Zieten's men captured the Austrian gun battery and turned the cannons on their former owners, who twice tried unsuccessfully to regain the lost battery. By 9:00 p.m. the battle wound down with the Prussians still in control of the heights.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...bei_Torgau.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Torgau

I've always considered Frederick the Great a pretty curious character. On one hand, he could pull off a brilliant campaign like at Rossbach and Leuthen, on the other he would underestimate his opponents or overestimate his own forces and either lose or suffer horribly because of it quite often.

Curiously, today is also the day Austria-Hungary collapsed after the Italian victory at the Battle of Vittorio Veneto...

While other states have an army, the Prussian army has its own state
wrongly attributed to der alte Fritz, really by Voltaire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov (Post 1528464)

While other states have an army, the Prussian army has its own state
attributed to der alte Fritz

I think Voltaire said that... :hmmm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor1 (Post 1528469)

I think Voltaire said that... :hmmm:

double checked that, my mistake, thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor1 (Post 1528461)

yes, he could be very arrogant, stubborn and overly aggressive. After carefully maneuvering throughout the 1760 campaign against superior forces, he rushes into a battle against a fortified position. He would have lost the battle without Zieten's change of plan.

He owed his many victories as much to the quality of the Prussian Army as to the weakness of his opponents, although I guess you could say that about many great generals.

Found this interesting, it apears Voltaire was a copy-cat, or plagiat:

Quote:

Minister Friedrich von Schrötter remarked that, "Prussia was not a country with an army, but an army with a country".

can find it here:
http://germanmilitaryhistory.devhub....prussian-army/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov (Post 1528480)

Found this interesting, it apears Voltaire was a copy-cat, or plagiat:

can find it here:
http://germanmilitaryhistory.devhub....prussian-army/

Well he did say that originality was judicious plagiarism. I wouldn't put it past him.