Book of Daniel
 

I have on occasion taught a class on endtime prophecy. It's usually on short notice and many don't have time to absorb what's said. So before I leave I print out this recap. It pretty much covers the big picture regarding the image in Nebuchad-nezzer dream in Chapter two. Chapter 2 being the one that starts people down the popular Roman endtime theory however after my class is over most reconsider. ;)

Firstly, thank you for allowing me to discuss the book of Daniel with you. I want to briefly clarify a few points I spoke about last Sunday.

When we read Daniel chapter 2 we discovered a great deal was written of mans inability, including Daniel, to tell the king the information he demanded to know. Daniel asked for a stay of execution so that he and his companions may inquire of God for an answer. The dream and interpretation were revealed to Daniel in a night vision. Daniel was able to explain both the dream and the interpretation with the information revealed to him directly from the God of Heaven. So when we read of men’s vain attempts to interpret the dreams and visions in this book, let it be known an answer has already been given by God Himself nothing has been left to our hearts imagination.

So, rather than add to Gods interpretation be content with what He has shown us, it is sufficient. When we read what He has described and interpreted for us we should find ourselves drawn to the fourth kingdom as it was given the greatest detail and is yet to be fulfilled. From God’s interpretation of the image we’re able to discern at least two things about the 4th kingdom.

• Its nature; it will have the strength of iron, yet be fragile and divided. “And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.” (Daniel 2: 40-43)

• The time of its existence, being when Messiah returns. “And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.” (Daniel 2: 44)

Many have construed the word “divided” to mean an arithmetical division of the fourth kingdom. But simple math dogmatically proves one part being equally divided leave us with two parts, let me remind you God specifically numbered them 1 thru 4, knowing this we should be compelled to look elsewhere for an answer. Thankfully, we have scriptural support that best describes what a divided kingdom.

And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: (Mathew 12:25).

We find similar examples concerning ‘divided kingdoms’ in Mathew 12:26, 27, 35; Mark 3:24, 25, 26 and Luke 11:17, 18; 12:52. Webster’s 1828 dictionary defines division of this nature as one of disunion; discord; variance; difference. Unless there is in the kingdom like minded people it will invariably come to an end and be destroyed.


I have been taught also by some the 4th kingdom is Rome. But there is nothing in scripture to indicate this. Simply put the Roman Empire no longer exists, it is a thing of the past and scripturally we are told a divided kingdom, as the 4th kingdom is described, does not return but rather it is brought to desolation. Furthermore God never names the 4th kingdom so the question must be asked, “By whose authority do those who give it a Roman name add to what God Himself has already interpreted?” That question alone should, again, cause us to look to scripture for an answer and not a commentary. In later chapters of Daniel 11, Ezekiel 38-39 and Revelation 16:12 we can pretty much pin point this location. I contend in chapter two some insight is gained into the general location of the 4th kingdom, by the very thoughts king Nebuchad-nezzer had on his mind before he went to bed.

We should be aware, King Nebuchad-nezzar had been given a kingdom and dominion.

And for the majesty that he gave him, all people, nations, and languages, trembled and feared before him: whom he would he slew; and whom he would he kept alive; and whom he would he set up; and whom he would he put down. (Daniel 5:19)

He was also chock full of pride.

The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty? (Daniel 4:30)

Though the exact wording of the question the king had on his mind before he went to bed is unknown, we know there was no other kingdom on earth greater than his and according to him it was he who had built it.

As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass. (Daniel 2:29)

What king with so great a kingdom, and so full of pride would not think to ask the question what will happen after I am gone. Particularly what will become of the kingdom “I have built”? Nebuchad-nezzer’s kingdom was Babylon (head; 1st) also known as the land of the Chaldeans (Ezekiel 12:13), it was then given over to the Madai-Persian king (breast & arms; 2nd), later to a Grecian king (belly & thighs; 3rd), and finally the fourth kingdom (legs & feet) spoken of will come to occupy the land of the Chaldean’s.

All of these kingdoms possessed the old Babylonian kingdom of Nebuchad-nezzar. Thus I believe we have a clue the 4th kingdom will have a central presence in the Middle East. Not in Europe as has been the predominant teaching until now.

There also seemed to be an issue regarding when God establishes His Kingdom on earth and rules from the Throne of David. To help clarify the time frame of when this happens, it comes after what is known as ‘Daniels 70th week’ or ‘the last week in Daniel’ during which time the 4th kingdom reigns. To keep it short and much to the point, from the time the order went out to rebuild Jerusalem, to when it was restored is 7 weeks (49 years). From the time Jerusalem was restored to Messiah the Prince (when Jerusalem rejected Christ) is 62 weeks (434 years) for a grand total of 69 weeks (7+ 62=69 weeks). Now it appears the great clock has stopped as the 70th week has yet to arrive. I contend the gap in time between the 69th and 70th week is Gods patience made manifest.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2Peter 3:9).

The 70th week (7 years) will start the day Anti-Christ (a.k.a. The King of the North, Abaddon, and Desolator) makes a covenant with many, and so the clock begins again. This covenant will last 1260 days (3.5 years) during which time it is thought the Temple will be rebuilt and they will cry peace and safety, peace and safety! But in the middle of the week the king of the north breaks the covenant. Causes sacrifice and oblation to cease and the overspreading abomination of desolation thus beginning Great Tribulation lasting for an additional 1260 days after which the 70th week ends.

Reading from Mathew 24:29 we find certain events happening immediately after the tribulation, we see God pouring out His wrath and then His second coming of which the exact day or hour is unknown. After this will the reign of the Gentile kingdoms come to an end, never to trodden down Jerusalem again, for the God of Israel will have established His Kingdom which will last forever.

And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. (Daniel 7:14)


I could go on ironing out the timeline of these events and I’d be happy to do so at a later date, in essence I want to show people where to look so that they will not be caught unawares. We need to be “Semper Gumby” (always flexible) for if we look too long in one place it will cause us to become complacent, stiff and lowers our guard. We have been commanded to be watchful; being watchful is an activity, an action which requires more than standing around waiting for something to happen.

Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

TBH, this was the only think I read. 'Therefore let us not sleep, as do others'; Well, that's my plan, it's 5am here. But this I didnt agree to; "But let us watch and be SOBER'. <-- NONSENSE!!

nighty nite Dowly :D

Amen...God is no respector of persons...

What I tell you, I tell all my servants...watch.

GJ Rock:up:

erm..okay.

Backs quietly out of the topic.:o

"Hey Pat, guess what they have - more scripture...!" :lol:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Let's not be rude, folks. No one is forcing you to read this thread.

Oh I don't mind the way I see it I'm in no position to take it personally, their arguement is not against me.

I've never understood doomsday religions. Really. If you're so eager for it all to end, join the Army and go put your life on the line.

As for the End Times, let me give the word to Jesus Himself:

And the disciples asked him, 'Tell us, when is this going to happen?'.

I tell you the truth: this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

I tell you the truth: some standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

Jesus' generation is long gone and He presently is two thousand years overdue. You've been stood up. Now get on with your lives.

Matthew quotes Jesus as saying in Matthew 24:36: "But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only."

So, it stands to reason that if Jesus didn't know when He would return, which would after the Great Tribulation in the End Times, He couldn't have meant the generation that existed when He ministered in Judea and before His crucifiction.

Cheers!

The generation Yeshua spoke of is the generation that will be here when 'it' starts. It I believe is the beginning of sorrows which I tend to think is starting or we have been in for a short time now. In otherwords we may very well be that generation.

I believe that's the most common interpretation...

However, one must realize that interpreting Biblical Scripture to ascertain the beginnings of the events in the Book of Revelations is rather futile. As quoted before in Matthew, even God's Son was not privy to the information. For instance:

Matthew 24:6-7; "And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled: for these things must needs come to pass; but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be famines and earthquakes in divers places."

Sounds a lot like today, does it not? But then again, how many times has this same set of scenarios been played out since the Resurrection? Many, many times. And I'm sure that those times were thought to be the starting of the End Times too.

No, attempting to divine Scripture to "nail down" the time is not possible. Instead, we are exhorted to remain faithful and alert... Remember the parable of the 10 Virgins and the Lamps...

Matthew 25:1-13

"Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!' Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.' But the wise answered, saying, 'No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for ourselves.' And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut. Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!' But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.' Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

And your point is what exactly? This a wonderful example of why it's simply not possible to even have a discussion concerning these things... No one is trying to convert you, you're not forced to participate and if the subject is offensive to you, do us all a favor and pass it by. Neal doesn't seem to have an issue with it, why should you?