SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - Comments re Hitman's tutorial re manual targeting

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Comments re Hitman's tutorial re manual targeting

Here are some comments that I posted in response to Hitman's tutorial on simplified manual targeting.

This was posted a couple of days ago in the thread to his post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

I used your manual targeting tutorial, but usually had major problems with the range, and the direction of the target was usually inaccurate. But the concept of aspect ratio is quite interesting. Before I delve into your new tutorial, I want to point out that the ship centered accuracy fix (SCAF) mod makes finding the range, aspect ratio and angle of bow a simple matter. Instead of determining range by matching up to the target's mast, you match up to another part of the ship (e.g., the smoke stack), so it is not as difficult as the task of matching up to the top of the target's mast, which is difficult to pinpoint at a distance. And you do not necessarily have determine the aspect ratio for accuracy.

I used it for the first time today, and the white "x" and white line showing the target's course on the Attack Map were on target. I mean exactly on target. (Maybe I got lucky). As the target moved into firing range the white x fell astern stlightly, which I attribute to a possible miscalcualtion of the target's speed. I fired and missed four shots to slightly to the stern of the target, but the markings on the attack map were where they were supposed to be. My ship only permitted slow torpedoe speed, and I do not know if that played a role in missing the shots. When calculating range on the stadimeter the trick appears to be matching the bottom of the waterline beneath the bottom of the top ("movable") target to the designated spot (i.e. the smoke stack) of the actual target.

If I strike out when I try it in the next few days, I will post a retraction. By the way, I delivered four torpedoes into a carrier yesterday, and although it made a major turn to port, it did not go down.

This was posted a few minutes ago in the thread in response to his post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

I had already read the Hitman tutorial. I thought it was a newer version. Anyhow, I want to follow-up on my previous post. I used the ship centered mod (SCAF) this evening and was able to calibrate range and angle of bow on a large modern split frieghter travelling at 10 knots at a range of about 1,000 yard at a bearing of roughly 350 degrees. The whte "x" and the white directional line on the attack map were about 50 yards above the target, but otherwise precise. I fired four torpedoes. I recorded the attack. The first torpedoe passed under the bow of the freighter, so I must have set it to run at too great a depth. The other three were hits on the bow section.

The benefit of using the mod is that you do not need to calculate the aspect ratio. It brings satisfaction to work out the correct aspect ratio, but it also a pain in the rear because it can be time consuming.

I have one correction to my previous post. When calculating range, line up the shadow ship with the mod's predefined point on the target and make sure that the bottom of the shadow ship's keel is touching that preddefined point. SCAF modifies the ship manual and the predefined points for each ship are highlighted in red. Read the instructions when you download the mod.

I f you don't use the mod, Hitman's tutorial should work better than trying the impossible task of lining up the shadow ship with the high point on the target's mast.

I'm goin' down you've come a long way in a month! You are absolute proof of the adage that to succeed is to refuse to be discouraged. Now you're picking up fine nuances of manual targeting. As the Aussies might say, good on ya!:up:

Reply to Rockin Robbins' post. SCAF and Hitman's tutorial

Because we are in the Pacific bringing the fight to the enemy (regs. prohibit identification of my location), none of you know that very early in my brief career (unfortunately, my crew and boat were "thrown" into battle with minimal training due to the attack at Pearl), Rockin Robbins gave it a boost with some great advice. My boat, myself and the Silent Service will be forever indebted. Between his video tutorials on automatic and manual targeting which saved our lives at the outset of the war and led to successful missions, and his coded e-mail advice, my boat is "begining" to find some (and I do not use that word lightly) success.

The four "aspects" (pun intended) of the game that I have found most difficult are 1. Patience (there is nothing worse than setting up for the "perfect shot" for an hour or more only to be sunk by an escort before a torpedoe is launched). 2. Setting up for the shot and finding out that you failed to set the mission for manual TDC. 3. Getting the aspect ratio and range incorrect, thus ruining the probability of torpedoe impact. 4. Getting jammimadrid's small tools mod to work properly. (I am working on it).

The most laughable part is when your torpedoes miss the intended target but strike and sink a more valuable target that is further away.

Having said that, I play the stock game, using manual TDC, realistic repair time, ship bobbing up and down in the water, event camera operating, camera operating, and map contacts on. I need a little more practice before I run on limited fuel, batteries, etc. and set for realisitic reload.

My advice to new players is to try and hunt unescorted freighters in the beginning. They usually travel alone or in groups of two or three ships. This provides the best opportunity to set up for a successful shot. Try to avoid destroyer escorts until you have mastered automatic targeting and had some success with manual targeting. If you don't, you will spend many hours at the computer and walk away frustrated. If your torpedoes miss at least you have time to salvage the attack by surfacing and using the deck gun to sink the bastard(s), which provides some emotional relief and renown.

Going after large convoys is dangerous because of destroyer escorts, and hunting combat ships in task forces presents the dual problem of avoiding escorts and scoring multiple hits on the chosen warship to disable or sink it, a risky proposition in any scenario as I have discovered the hard way. However, mastering manual targeting appears to be the pathway to delving into to the finer and more difficult aspects of this complex game.

Having said that, I want to emphasize that Hitman's tutorial is an excellent piece of work. I have printed it and keep a copy within arm's length during operations in case SCAF proves inaccurate. The SCAF mod can be found in the mods workshop forum. I also like the realistic sinking mod, Environmental 5.0, and jammimadrid's green lights mod for the HUD display.

Have to go! We are a day ahead of all you stateside folks and the cooks managed to bring several turkeys onboard, so I have ordered an early Thankgiving dinner complete with all of the fixings and Pumpkin pie, since we have been notified of a of a large convoy a day away and expect to be at Battle Stations on Thursday.:p

One final note and thought

Just as the crew was sitting down for dinner, we received a hydrophone contact of a merchant that was closing. It was another large old split freighter, travelling at 10 kts. We attacked, firing torpedoes at a thousand yards at 90 degrees. The attack was recorded.

We used SCAF/manual targeting and released the first of four torpedoes at 346 degrees. The range and aspect ratio at 1800 yds was dead center using SCAF so I lowered the periscope (practicing for the more difficult attacks that are sure to come) and tracked the ship on the Attack Map. I did not recheck the aspect, course, range and AOB for accuracy after that point. The first torpedoe made contact dead center splitting the freighter in half. The other three were fired after a slight delay and released between 350 - 356 degrees. They each missed aft of the target - the second shot by a yard , the third by 3 yds and the fourth by 3-5 yds. All were fired using slow speed torpedoes. I cannot account for the missed shots, except to note that the torpedoes were set at slow speed (I did not have a high speed option) and I did not recheck the SCAF for accuacy within 1800 yds. In any event, the missed shots were close misses (I know--we are not playing horshoes!).

I have concluded that SCAF appears to work quite well, and I recommend it for the reasons posted here and above. Certainly working through Hitman's tutorial is well worth it because it explains the concept and importance of aspect ratio in a submarine attack. I am glad I read it because I would never have understood SCAF without working through attacks using Hitman's method. How he figured it out is beyond me, and he deserves credit and praise for explaining and presenting a complex subject in a fashion that a lay seaman such as myself was able to understand. Thanks Hitman. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/icons/icon10.gif

Next objective, attack at an odd angle using SCAF where the shot is not a broadside, as demonstrated in Hitman's tutorial example. Previously, I thought that tactic was an impossibility.

That's it for this thread unless someone has questions or comments that are appropriate to address.