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-   Sub/Naval & General Games Discussion (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=177)
-   -   Another anti pirate thread. Bethesda speaks. (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=143563)

kiwi_2005 10-25-08 03:24 AM
Another anti pirate thread. Bethesda speaks.
 
"Bethesda: "50% of tech support inquiries are from those with pirated copies."

http://tinyurl.com/6yqebj

Quote:
Bethesda Softworks, in the form of product manager Pete Hines, has joined in the mass of developers trying to put the boot into the PC games industry.

Speaking to MTV Multiplayer, Hines said his studio spent half of its customer support time dealing with people who had pirated copies of the game.

"The amount of money we spend supporting people who didn’t pay us for the game in the first place … it’s f**king ludicrous. We talk to other developers, guys who are [like] ‘Yeah, it’s a third, it’s 50 per cent of our [customer] support,'" Hines told MTV Multiplayer.

Fallout 3 will, like Oblivion, only be shipping with mild forms of copy protection, the kind that people don't go onto the internet and complain about (there won't be any Spore-esque flame wars with Fallout 3).

Interestingly, Fallout 3 has already leaked onto some torrent sites, much to Bethesda's dismay. However, the leaked version is actually for the Xbox 360, proving that piracy isn't just a problem the home computer market.

BioWare has recently come out with a sensible idea for combating PC piracy, namely the ability to obtain downloadable content and multiplayer modes that pirates simply can't get around.

Look at games like Team Fortress 2 and, we assume, Left 4 Dead. You'll find very few pirates there, because it is virtually, if not totally impossible to get into a multiplayer game on Steam using a dodgy copy.

Lessons like this need to be learned.

Otto_Weddigen 10-25-08 05:08 AM
Yo Kiwi_2005 you from NZ?

kiwi_2005 10-25-08 05:13 AM
Yep. So you are too i presume?

Onkel Neal 10-25-08 05:56 AM
Quote:
"The amount of money we spend supporting people who didn’t pay us for the game in the first place … it’s f**king ludicrous. We talk to other developers, guys who are [like] ‘Yeah, it’s a third, it’s 50 per cent of our [customer] support,'" Hines told MTV Multiplayer.
Pete's a good guy, I got to meet him at E3 a couple years back. This makes me sick. :shifty:

Rilder 10-25-08 08:19 AM
Quote:
Look at games like Team Fortress 2 and, we assume, Left 4 Dead. You'll find very few pirates there, because it is virtually, if not totally impossible to get into a multiplayer game on Steam using a dodgy copy.
Unfortunatly just running away to multiplayer won't protect you from piracy, with things like hamachi, private servers and the like people can find away around and play multiplayer no matter what.

Steam can't protect from pirates either, steam only games can be pirated too.

1: Theres only 3 effective ways to prevent pirates:
Don't hype the game at all and rely on word of mouth, don't even put it on steam or the like.

2: Make the game free or donationware (can't pirate a free game, and look at dwarf fortress, Toady makes good money off his free game)

3: Don't release the game. Which is kinda stupid. :lol:


Also don't forget, alot of the mainstream dev teams are putting out increasinly crappy games, like Spore and its really ruining the confidence of gamers to spend money on a game that will probably end up an over hyped piece of ****. Fallout 3 is looking like Oblivion, a game that was a terrible sequal to the Elder Scrolls series, fallout fans are probably expecting an even worse sequal to Fallout.

Robsoie 10-25-08 10:05 AM
Indeed, multiplayer is not a protection against piracy, from what i read most pirated multiplayer steam games, unlike what the Bethesda guy tell, are in fact played on private servers with pirated steam applications.

Maybe a possible solution would be in the game support.
By example Stardock that is selling their game without copy portection or any intrusive software annoying their cutstomer require some kind of authentification when a customer want to get patch and additional content for his game.

I think it is a good idea , the software itself after you buy it feature not a single annoyance for the customer, but extra content and game support needs a legit copy authentification (don't remember if it was email/code/serial related)

Of course simple serial/email is not really a problem for pirates, but there must certainly be a way to get something done that would not be as easy for piracy to circumvent during the game support process.

Probably this game support process is where the publishers should put their anti piracy protection instead of forcing heavy DRM and feeding starforce/securom-like horrors to their customers at the retail store.

CCIP 10-25-08 11:31 AM
One of the really dumb, ironic problem with invasive copy protection is that much of it (especially Starforce of course) came out of the Russian market where many legit publishers actually competed (successfully) with pirates by driving down the prices of legit games to a level where they only cost a bit more than the pirated copy, with the pricetag certainly justifying owning a license to a game. Note - I said owning a license. When games cost what they do in a place like Russia (i.e. several times cheaper than in Europe or the US), it's certainly understandable and excusable to be paying a modest amount for a restricted form of "ownership" of a game copy and putting up with some inconveniences for their system.

The really stupid thing is that Europe and the US pretty well adopted Russia's fiercely competitive copy protection system without adopting Russia's likewise competitive pricing. Most of the time the pricetags on new games here are around $60, which is completely ludicrous and has no justification given the way copy protection and user control over the game copy are treated. There are a few niche exceptions to that I am happy to put up with, where an unusual game by a small publisher and for a special audience needs to be priced higher to make a profit and keep up development. But most of the time, the pricing is unjustified.

I would not be so displeased with a certain level of copy protection if the average new game cost $15-20. At $50-70 however, publishers are making a huge mistake - blaming piracy for what is actually a problem caused by a combination of invasive copy protection, overblown and unreasonable pricing, and of course poor quality of many of the products marketed for this price. Publishers are getting into all sorts of posturing about losing trust in gamers, but in fact it's they who are losing the gamers' trust. And for good reasons.

I buy very few new games nowadays. Most of the games I do buy new come from smaller publishers. Otherwise I just don't feel it's worth the price and cost (two different things in this case) at release.

Wolfehunter 10-25-08 11:39 AM
Stardock isn't perfect dudes. You need pulse to download the latest patches.

Stardock games comes out buggy then your screwed if you don't use this software.

I've had my beef with them. Central I didn't like when they forced it down my throat.

The only way to stop piracy is not make any games. PC, console, cellphones or pockets etc. All can be copied or cracked.

Donations idea helps.

Anyhow Beth had it comming to them. They pissed off too many fans.:nope: Maybe some of their own people too?:hmm:

And if beth and any other company choose to leave the PC market... I say good riddance because all theirs doing is screwing the honest clients with DRMs and crappy games.

Plenty of other companies and newer ones filling in the gap.:rock:

Wolfehunter 10-25-08 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCIP
One of the really dumb, ironic problem with invasive copy protection is that much of it (especially Starforce of course) came out of the Russian market where many legit publishers actually competed (successfully) with pirates by driving down the prices of legit games to a level where they only cost a bit more than the pirated copy, with the pricetag certainly justifying owning a license to a game. Note - I said owning a license. When games cost what they do in a place like Russia (i.e. several times cheaper than in Europe or the US), it's certainly understandable and excusable to be paying a modest amount for a restricted form of "ownership" of a game copy and putting up with some inconveniences for their system.

The really stupid thing is that Europe and the US pretty well adopted Russia's fiercely competitive copy protection system without adopting Russia's likewise competitive pricing. Most of the time the pricetags on new games here are around $60, which is completely ludicrous and has no justification given the way copy protection and user control over the game copy are treated. There are a few niche exceptions to that I am happy to put up with, where an unusual game by a small publisher and for a special audience needs to be priced higher to make a profit and keep up development. But most of the time, the pricing is unjustified.

I would not be so displeased with a certain level of copy protection if the average new game cost $15-20. At $50-70 however, publishers are making a huge mistake - blaming piracy for what is actually a problem caused by a combination of invasive copy protection, overblown and unreasonable pricing, and of course poor quality of many of the products marketed for this price. Publishers are getting into all sorts of posturing about losing trust in gamers, but in fact it's they who are losing the gamers' trust. And for good reasons.

I buy very few new games nowadays. Most of the games I do buy new come from smaller publishers. Otherwise I just don't feel it's worth the price and cost (two different things in this case) at release.
CCIP you forget Publishers are gods and can not do wrong... Everybody else is wrong and must be punished by gods hand.:yep:

difool2 10-25-08 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Stevens
Quote:
"The amount of money we spend supporting people who didn’t pay us for the game in the first place … it’s f**king ludicrous. We talk to other developers, guys who are [like] ‘Yeah, it’s a third, it’s 50 per cent of our [customer] support,'" Hines told MTV Multiplayer.
Pete's a good guy, I got to meet him at E3 a couple years back. This makes me sick. :shifty:
What does, the way he phrased his complaint or the pirates who are making his job difficult?

CCIP 10-25-08 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfehunter
CCIP you forget Dev's are gods and can not do wrong... Everybody else is wrong and must be punished by gods hand.:yep:
You mean publishers. While devs (like in this case) do speak up on the issue, 99.9% of game developers anywhere really have no direct involvement in the publication, copy protection and marketing decisions for a game. The remaining 0.1% are small-time, independent developers who publish their own games, which really is not the norm in the industry. The norms are set by the likes of Ubi and EA, which so far has proved to be a fairly bad thing for everyone (including, ironically, Ubi and EA themselves).

Wolfehunter 10-25-08 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCIP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfehunter
CCIP you forget Dev's are gods and can not do wrong... Everybody else is wrong and must be punished by gods hand.:yep:
You mean publishers. While devs (like in this case) do speak up on the issue, 99.9% of game developers anywhere really have no direct involvement in the publication, copy protection and marketing decisions for a game. The remaining 0.1% are small-time, independent developers who publish their own games, which really is not the norm in the industry. The norms are set by the likes of Ubi and EA, which so far has proved to be a fairly bad thing for everyone (including, ironically, Ubi and EA themselves).
Ya your right publisher... I was about to correct myself but you where faster.:D

SUBMAN1 10-25-08 01:30 PM
I will buy their deluxe copy for the simple fact they aren't including any real copy protection. Oblivion is one of the best selling PC games of all time, and it it used almost no copy protection as well.

Bethesda seems to have learned form this, but the support call thing is crazy. A simple fix for this is to require a serial number before every call.

Support this game. i will be come Tuesday.

-S

Wolfehunter 10-25-08 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUBMAN1
I will buy their deluxe copy for the simple fact they aren't including any real copy protection. Oblivion is one of the best selling PC games of all time, and it it used almost no copy protection as well.

Bethesda seems to have learned form this, but the support call thing is crazy. A simple fix for this is to require a serial number before every call.

Support this game. i will be come Tuesday.

-S
:nope: Sorry Subman I will not support Bethesda ever again. Well Unless they change the publishers.. Then maybe...:hmm:

SUBMAN1 10-25-08 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfehunter
:nope: Sorry Subman I will not support Bethesda ever again. Well Unless they change the publishers.. Then maybe...:hmm:
Why?

And Bethesda is a publisher by the way, not the game company. So i don't follow you. Did some game company pull a fast one on you that was published by Bethesda?

-S


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