Merkel "Georgia will become a member of Nato"
 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080817...9ddw6g.aZg.3QA

Didn't know if it should garner it's own thread or be put into SkyBirds original thread.

I'll open it up to the floor.

And I'll become emperor of the world soon, so behave you all. You've been warned.

Don't worry about it this floor has saw dust mixed with beer and urine in it, but the passion for the Georgia/Russian conflict is the reason why.

Has Nato ever been tested is my question :hmm:

In Afghanistan.

Ignoring the questionable way in which NATO allowed to get drawn into it, just answer yourself one question: is NATO answering to the mission with one voice, and is every member pulling at the same end of the rope, and are all nations sharing comparable risks and investements?

Afghanistan is a textbook illustration of the state of things onside NATO. Want to take that condition as a basis for a war with Russia?

Ex-chancellor Gerhard Schröder called Saakashvilli a "hasardeur". It is a total exception from the rule that I agree with that man on something and I would love to see him being shot to the dark side of the moon, but in his assessement of Saakashvilli I agree.

If anything, Merkel'S statement shows just one thing: that although some assessements get changed under the influence of the russian demonstration, nevertheless the West seems determined to continue with a policy of self-deception, having fantasies about the russians, and over-estimating the importance the EU plays in Russian considerations.

But if anybody believes they will just sit by and only watch while Georgia - or the Ukraine - will enter NATO and the alliance moves directly to the borders of Russia, then he must be insane.

BTW, they have just declared their inention to rearm their fleet in Kaliningrad with nuclear weapons again, in response to US radar stations being build in Poland, they also told both Poland and Chech republic that the US program will make these installation a priority target for russian nulcear strikes in case of conflict with NATO. Irnoically both states get exactly that kind of nuclear attention against which the Us program was claiming to protect them.

For 20 years the West live din total ignorrance of understandable Russian interests. And now they have had enough, and start sending bills. continue with the old ways, and the bills will become higher and higher. after the ignorrant Western reactions of the past days I do not rule out the possibility of a new full aale cold war II. Juzst days agai I still thought different, but I cannot see the West learning anything from its past mistakes. Also, Russia knows very strongly what it wants, while the West is left bare of any realistic orientation. nobody should complain that we just suffered a serious strategic defeat, well-deserved.

A german commentator just compoared Russia with Iran, poiinting out that Iran pushes the West into the defensive in the very same way like Putin did: by knowing very strongly what it wants. Ahmadinejkadh is currently about payoing an official state visit to turkey, something that almost got lost here in the West. That visit was prepared for over 5 years, to bring him out of the isolation and to try move Turkey out of the already weak consensus of NATO regarding Iran. this visit is a great strategic victory for Iran - and does anybody here in the West even take note of this diplomatic desaster? No - we are busy bringing NATO into Russia's backyard.

Say, who is the one having hallucinations here - Putin, or Ahmadinejadh - or us: the West? In chess there is something that in german is called "Aufbaukunst" (= the art of [strategic] developement /the art of basic [strategic] construction). NATO not only has serious deficits regarding this skill, but replaces them with dangerous illusions. Nothing good can come from that, just defeat, loss and self-destruction.

As long as you make Warsteiner available, you have my support!:D

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/...d8732a95_o.jpg

That vessel was german once, a Lindau Class wooden minesweeper M 1085 Minden.
Must be the first postwar german vessel to be sunk by enemy action....
Looks salvageable though

Let me guess.
Russians? :arrgh!:
Again.

Well, I suppose the russian scuttled pretty much every boat owned by the georgian government, but except for the missile boat Tbilisi (that burned) all I've seen look salvagable.
Actually that move was not as senseless as it seems.
I remember a documentary about Abkhazia from before the war, where Abkhaz fishermen complained they were not able to fish for years because the georgians block the coast.
In a conflict where one side has no navy and the other has (had) a small navy, this side is the dominant sea power...
But actually I suppose georgian coast guardsmen will be glad to get a modern replacement for ex-Minden.
Crews in the wooden minesweepers lived like rats, especially the enlisted in the forecastle.
I suppose the crew of a WW2 flower class Corvette had better acomodation!

The georgians must've felt a bit cheated when they turned to western navies to replace their soviet era junk and got western discards of similar age!
I mean german vessels are always well build and well maintaned, but a 40 year old wooden boat is not a good naval unit to give away if you want to impress, even if it is build by Abeking & Rasmussen or Lürssen...
I remember in 1999 we had the Latvians (or Estonians? or both) in Kiel to take over some of these boats. The guys looked like pirates, all bearded, most likely all ex soviet navy.
Men of steel for wooden ships, I suppose....

NATO is allready in Russian border in Baltics, Finland and Sweden are likely to also join and there are calls for more money to be put in defence, Russia is hurting itself. NATO enlargement has revealed Russias intentions to get back the areas it once held, hence if a new Cold war would emerge, it would be of Russias own doing. Their imperialistic interests they can shove where the sun dont shine, we have to worry about OUR interests. Its them that have fantasies of their own importance, nobody has corrected them because we know how fragile their self-esteem is, like an infant on tantrums. Russia cannot win this, they will loose like they did the last time. Europe doesnt need Russia as a "strategic partner", they are a supplier of energy. And its not like they are giving it for free, they get payed the market price. They need atleast one revolution more, hope thats finally enough and they can grow up.:lol:

Georgian Navy Missile boat 'Tbilisi' burning in the port of Poti.
http://content.foto.mail.ru/list/t34...ons/i-1614.jpg

That's how it looked like __http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Georgian_Navy_missile_boat_Tbilisi.jpg

Weapons confiscated/collected by Russians in Abkhazia
http://content.foto.mail.ru/list/t34...ons/i-1613.jpg

Abandoned Georgian equipment
http://content.foto.mail.ru/list/t34...ons/i-1616.jpg

http://content.foto.mail.ru/list/t34...ons/i-1617.jpg



http://content.foto.mail.ru/list/t34...ons/i-1618.jpg

http://content.foto.mail.ru/list/t34...ons/i-1619.jpg

They were just running towards Tbilisi...

Dream on, HT. Words is all that you - and Western leaders - have. So if you take comfort from speaking tough, feel free. But I - and for different reasons: the Russians - will not carry on to care for that. Sooner or later you learn for the better, or you don't - it does not really matter.

Can you explain what the Russians have but words?

With that question apparently meant serious, I can't take you serious any longer, sorry.

You are free to do so, but can you answer?

@HT

Are you living on the same planet as I do?:huh: