Help avoiding detection
 

Hi, I've been playing SH4 on and off for a few months now, experimenting with different ships and years and what not. Ever since I installed the 1.3 patch I've found it impossible to attack any convoys because I ALWAYS get detected by the destroyers that are guarding the convoy. Now when I played with patch 1.2 as long as I wasn't surfaced they wouldn't see me. I even had a couple literally run into me and damage my sub because I was only about 20 feet below the surface and I was still not detected, they just kept on going. Now, under version 1.3, even if I am at periscope depth with my periscope still down even if I'm completely stopped and just sitting there they will detect me and I'll either die or barely make it out of there with my sub intact. At first I thought maybe it was because they heard me approaching even when I was pretty far out but today I was sitting in the spot I wanted to be in for a good 10 hours completely stopped waiting on the convoy to come and they still detected me and came after me. I was at periscope depth with the periscope down, completely stopped and it was at night.

It's really quite frustrating since I basically have to completely avoid convoys now. Am I doing something wrong? Or maybe this is just a bug with 1.3? Is there any way to fix it? Any advice you guys can offer is appreciated.

Hmm, that info was quite helpful, thanks Ducimus. I think part of my problem is since installing version 1.3 I've been playing a career starting late in the war so detection is easier than it was in my original careers when I started at the beginning of the war. It does leave me with a couple more questions though. In regards to the strategy of attacking a convoy, what's the best way to get in there, shoot a couple merchants and get out alive? I mean, from what I understand (based on the link you posted) I could sit below the thermal layer and then wait for the Destroyer in the front of the convoy to pass above me without being detected. Then, when I surface (well, to periscope depth) I'll be slightly in front of but mostly to the side of the Destroyers that escort the convoy on the left and right side. Will they still be able to detect me if I'm say... 2000 yards out but directly to their side at periscope depth? Or will they be able to hear me surfacing if they were listening rather than pinging? Basically it sounds like convoys late in the war are going to be more trouble than they're worth, but I just hate giving up on them.

All stop, 380', silent running on. The DD still runs over me and finds me with TM1.5. Deep, quiet, and silent aren't enough to keep you from detection. I'm wondering if (stupidly) my broadside turned toward the convoy (in prep for a perpendicular attack) is giving me away. If I was deep, stopped, and parallel with the convoy if they wouldn't find the USS Needle in the Haystack Straights.

i now avoid anything with the super destroyers around they, are a pain.

means less tonnage but you survive on single or double merchants,

& always save before any encounters



DavidH

I basically come at them like this:

Imagine a clock if you would. Lead escort is at the 12 o'clock. The side escort are at 9 and 3 o'clock and the rear escort is at 6 o'clock. Roughly the lead is searching ahead of the convoy. The two side DD are looking off to the side and the rear escort searching the rear and sometimes ahead. What I do is position my heading to come in either at the 10 o'clock position or the 2 o'clock position. These seem to be the blind spots. I also go in below the thermal layer and once the lead escort has passed, I move to periscope depth and prepare the torps for firing. Once you get past that lead escort, you are pretty much good to go. Remember though, only use the scope sparingly. Leaving it up to enjoy the view is not good. I concentrate on 2 to 3 ships only. I'm certainly not going to sink them all in once shot. What I do like currently is the mix of DD and how effective they are. Some convoys are just going to be tough as all heck. Others will be the turkey shoot. Try what I do and see if that works for you.

:yep:

http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/convoy_attack_wrong.jpg
Don't do this. As tempting as it might be to try and get inside a convoy.


http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/convoy_attack_1.jpg
Stand off to the side, and away from the lead escorts path. Your aspect will get you detected every time. But you also can't stay where your at, because the side guarding escort will detect you as well. Solution is to wait tell the lead escort is just about to pass you, and start to move in

http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/convoy_attack_2.jpg
Like so.... Also notice the angle. A straight 90 shot on a convoy is acutally a bad thing to do, because its near impossible to time your shots, on top of that, you'll have overlapping targets if you come in at a slight angle to the convoy. In this scenario, youve just skipped the lead escort, and the side guarding one will pass astern of you. Shoot your fish.


This isnt a hard solution for every encounter. Sometimes you'll have to get creative. if theres ALOT of escorts, you'll have to approach the convoy bows on to keep your aspect low, and then pull a hard turn when your past the escort screen and on the firing position to bring your tubes to bear. The fly in the ointment in that scenario, is you'll make alot of noise to bring your tubes to bear in time because your window of opportunity to fire is very narrow.

Welcome to SUBSIM:up: Theraven


RDP

Ahh Ducimus put my clock into pictures and nice ones as well:D:up:

I avoid the DD problem by taking them out first ... usually only spend 1 torp per DD.
(Of course I have yet to install TM 1.X or patch 1.3) I'm running "vanilla 1.2")

Which is a waste of time and torpedoes, not to mention the fact you've now alerted the rest of the convoy to your presence.

No, it's not necessarily a waste of time/torpedoes. Using TM 1.4 I have on several occasions sunk all the escorts (4 or 5) and then roared around submerged and got all the merchies. Usually end up taking the last couple surfaced. There are lots of options in this game.... Assess each situation seperately.

Nah, Luke I don't see it that way.
If I take out the probability of being attacked by sinking or seriously damaging the attacker first, then that's one less I have to worry about. And besides, every ounce that hits the bottom of the ocean just adds to the total overall score eventually.

As far as alerting the convoy, note my setup ... still runnin 1.2 patch plain vanilla, most of the convoy comes to a screeching halt or a snails pace after the initial attack.

But yer entitled to yer opinion. Thanks for sharing!

I feel like i failed at something.

Ducimus, if you've failed at something, it wasn't for lack of effort.

If you're talking about anything related to SH, at least. Grocery shopping, on the other hand... well, you could be a failure at that. Never seen you shop. :D