Contradiction between ship measures?
 

(I'll post this here also, cos it might have an effect on firing data, or not) edit: it actually effects...

Looks like there are pretty big variations in the printed collector's edition Recognition manual compared to the game (Data/Sea/"Ship"/Cfg-files). Lenght's, height's, width's and Draft's that is. Printed values are the same the dev's give to ships in the SH4 homepage, in-game values are not.

Couple examples: Printed says, Carrier Hiryu's Heigh't is 35.2 meters (115.5 feet) and the cfg-file says 20 meters (65.6 feet). Heavy cruiser Furutaka's height differs nearly 28%. That's a lot.

edit: Displacements are fraked also. Heavy Cruiser Takao has a RL (& printed manual value) displ. of 9,850 tons. The game cfg-value is 15870(!)

And some mechants have the same problem also: Nagara Maru: Printed's length is 143.2 meters (470 feet), cfg-file says only 120 meters (393.7 feet).

Strangely, some of the ships from the printed rec manual has all the measures accurate, and some of the ships are way of compared to cfg-values.

But which values are correct compared to the 3-D models? About 5200 GRT Biyo Maru's lenght match between the printed manual and the game's value (only 1.9 meter difference). And the 7200 GRT Nagara Maru's lenght in game is similar (120 meters), which is odd, because the ship is considerably bigger. Is the Nagara Maru ( 3-D) really only 120 meters long or not? And how about all the others too?

The Silent Hunter 4 homepage has all the ship details to compare:

http://silenthunter4.uk.ubi.com/ships.php

What do you think?

And, if already known issue, forget it then.

K

edit:

I'll edit the cfg files so that they correlate with the data given to ships in page above and in printed rec manual, and see what happens. If the in-game 3D models have been given wrong measures (cfg-files), it will somewhat ruin your firing data. I.e. if the measures for the firing data is taken FROM the cfg-files (?). Editing them (Lenght, width etc.) changes those values in the game tho.


edit2:

So, I edited (and fixed) pretty much all jap vessels (that had "wrong" data) in the game. I used "Jane's Fighting Ships of WW2" as a reference. It looked like the dev's data here and there were similar, not all. Lengths, widths, heights drafts, displacements and complements match much better now IMO.

I can confirm from my behalf, that the data/sea/"ship"/cfg-files, that contain ship measures, does in fact have effect on your firing data.

I edited the heavy cruiser Mogami (original mast= 34.6 meters) to mast 17.3 meters (1/2 from original). Then I went to submarine school and measured the distance to mogami and the range (in TDC) was also halved.

So, with some certainty, I could claim that the faulty ship measure data in those cfg files DO effect your aiming (hitting that is). And there ARE faulty data in the game. Also, the wrong draft (which you believe to be correct) of the ship will spoil your influence exploder settings.

All I need to someone else to confirm this.

edit:


same mogami scenario:

original mast height 34.6 m ---> TDC range = 1300m <---this is the actual distance to the mogami

(if) mast height 17.3 m ---> TDC range = 650 m <---- when the actual distance to the mogami is 1300m

(if) mast height 51.9 m ---> TDC range = 2100m -"-

(if) mast height 7 m --> TDC range = 290 m -"-

If I wanted to change the ships in my SH4.. what is the way I should read these stats and what are they "feet"?? or something else.

http://www.the-blueprints.com/index....ruisers-japan/

The stats for exampe for the 1940 Mogami are .. 1267 / 524 / 25

You can find the files to edit in data/sea/(pick a ship)/CFG. Open it with a notepad.


[Unit]
ClassName=CAMogami
3DModelFileName=data/Sea/NCA_Mogami/NCA_Mogami
UnitType=7
MaxSpeed=35
Length=200 <------ these are meters, can be changed to imperial IN the game
Width=20.5 <--------
Mast=34.6 <-------
Draft=4.4 <----
Displacement=8500
RenownAwarded=500
CrewComplement=450
SurvivalRate=90
SurvivalPercentage=20

[2DCompartments]
UnitPos=87,17,338,11
NbOfComp=6
Name1=Propulsion
Area1=96,14,23,15
Name2=Keel
Area2=173,13,200,10
Name3=Fore Ammo Bunker
Area3=333,24,21,10
Name4=Aft Ammo Bunker
Area4=153,24,21,10
Name5=Engines Room
Area5=233,24,62,10
Name6=Fuel Bunkers
Area6=297,24,26,10



Btw, exellent link. Thanks!

I believe that these are the size of the pictures, not the actual ship

Ok, here is for clarification another example:

We can see here Nagara Maru cfg-file, (or Large Modern Composite Freighter ) in the original in-game measures: length, width, mast and draft. The values on the right side of arrows are showing the values, that are announced by the dev's in their sh4 website and in the printed recognition book that came with the collector's edition.



[Unit]
ClassName=KLCSNagara
3DModelFileName=data/Sea/NKLCS_Nagara/NKLCS_Nagara
UnitType=102
MaxSpeed=19
Length=120 <--- 143.2
Width=15 <--- 18.9
Mast=30 <--- 36.5
Draft=7.5 <--- 8.3
Displacement=7145
DisplacementVariation=90
RenownAwarded=250
CrewComplement=40
SurvivalRate=80
SurvivalPercentage=20

Those figures, especially mast height, has a big influence in your firing data. Here, we can see that it's almost 18 % exception in the height. That is a factor, at least for longer shots.

Why I am bringing this up, is that so many of those values for different ships have the same measures as in the website + printed manual (the right ones IMO), and many values don't match. And generally comparing different ships, their lenghts and heights + tonnage, there are some curiosities amongst them. I.e., if a 1,700 ton destroyer have a mast of 70 + feet (21+ meters) , how can a 16,000 ton carrier (and double the lenght) has a mast height of only 65 feet (less than 20 meters) when it supposed to be 115.5 feets (35 meters) according to the printed manual + website. Again, I say that there are mistakes in those cfg-files.

I tested a magnetic pistol torpedo against NipponMaru tanker, using the depth setting according to original value (24.6 feet + 3 feet =27.6 feet). Torpedo hit the bottom of the tanker, didn't go under it. The draft values should actually be 29.5 feet (and so oughta hit and not go under). In that case (if added the 3 feet for the mag) the torpedo would have swimmed under the ship (29.5 + 3 feet).

This is not anything as signifigant as a wrong style belt buckles, but I'm surprised to see that the possible faulty data ( that effects your TDC firing solution )in some ships doesen't seem to interest (any) modders. :hmm:

Or am I so obviously lost here with this find? I would really appreciate any feedback or ideas of how to cope with it.

Well, this would explain why I could not get a decent range estimate for some ships, despite using the "correct" procedures. For alot of targets (such as Mogami), I am finding I have use a little "windage," since the range estimates doing just as the book says come up short by a few dozen yards.