The abandoned warriors
 

This is exactly the kind of sh!t that I reall hate to see and was so very suspicious about from the very beginning. After the americans had their scandal about disgusting and totally unacceptable conditions in their military hospitals, and not just in one, the Brits now start to copy their American buddies in that, too. And again I said that this would happen. No surprise for me, but still much anger.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1496874.ece

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/pol...cle2347521.ece

One should force Blair, Bush and Cheney and the others with a loaded weapon at point blank range to join in the first front line and have their tour in Iraq's streets and trenches and serve a full tour with themselves at risk - like all those people they send over there while enjoying the comfort and safety of their office when signing the order. In earlier times, kings led their armies at least by joining them on the battlefield. Today - well, you know it.

I dealt with heavily traumatized people years ago, that's why I take this one as a non-national issue for me: because I saw at close range what traumatization means, and what kind of suffering and misery it comes with, an how it degrades life and destroys social existence. Shame on Britain and the US that they made the wrong decisions for war. shame on them for letting down the people who believed them and willingly went over there to do how they had been told - and later find themselves being let down. SHAME.

Hope that people finally will begin to remember this the next time some highranking political eggheads prematurely calls for the troops being sent to war. But judging by past experiences, I doubt it.

I have been away for some months and I am glad to see nothing has changed :arrgh!:

Ach, ist doch wahr...

Tell them before, and noone takes care. Afterwards, nobody wants to accept responsebility for his wrong "I know it better". Next time, the same mistake will be made again. Hopeless. I still have it in the ear, the replies "We have invested so and so much into our psyhcological service for our troops", "We can manage it", "Veterans earn our best respect and we take very good care of them." Ha...

BTW, a lot has changed here, at least for me. Welcome back. ;)

Skybird,
Given the fact that you've never served in any military, what do you care about the American health care system (or the US military, for that matter)?
I've never encountered anything that couldn't have been rectified on the spot (speaking from 45 years experience). One of my friends who worked at Walter Reed says the problems stem from lazy civil service types, not active duty personnel.
Typical drivel from our beloved Muenster uber radical. BTW, were you ever a member of the FDJ? :p

Yours, Mike

Military medicine is an absolute cluster eff. It's better for the officers (equivalent to civilian insured) than the enlisted (equivalent to civilian socialized), but it is still a nightmare. The VA is really bad, and I do agree that much of it is due to federal civil service employees who become completely un-motivated after they achieve job security. The entirety of the VA needs fresh workers and a brand new mandate.

I could say the exact same thing for the IRS and the CIA. Mein Gott, the CIA has really gone down the tubes.

I've heard the same VA horror stories you all have heard but I have to say that the VA did save my life once. I walked into a civilian emergency room with a severe inner ear infection for which i was given Tylenol and a bill for $500 bucks (no insurance at the time). My GF at the time then talked me into going to the VA the next day. They quickly diagnosed the problem (and it's severity) and game me antibiotics which cleared it up all for no cost.

So maybe the VA is really bad but my personal experience with them doesn't bear that out.

Agreed on all points 100%. Sometimes job protection is a bad thing. Keeps competition out and assures employee lack of wanting to work.

OK I've been told I'm too provocative in my posts. But I was thinking if its not provocative then why post at all? Back to topic.

The folks complaining about the lack of care being given veterans are the same people who want universal health care in the US. Hello, if the gov't cannot supply adequate care for approximately 26 million veterans (8.6% of the US population) what would lead anyone to believe that the gov't can provide universal health care for 300 million?

OK, a little off topic but worth thinking about non the less.

You know very well that the FDJ was not a West- but Eastgerman organisation.

You also know very well, because i answered you repeatedly this question over the years, that I never was with the military. I lived in Westberlin in the 80s and so was not only spared but forbidden from being drawn for conscript service. But I spend quite some serious thoughts on becoming a professional soldier after school (going to westgermany for that, of course). That's the one major reason why such stories like depicted in this thread somehow "personally" angers me. when I see young soldiers, I see a little bit of me and what could have become of me, if that close deicsion of mine against the army wpould have been slightly different.

I tend to ignore nationalities when thinking about wstern armies like Germany, Britain, Holland, US. This may sound queer for you, but I judge an ongoling military engagement by it's cause, not by the participating nationalities. In that meaning, I tend a little bit to see your American troops as "our" boys like I feel the same for Germna or Dutch or British troops. Being cenrted in a very nationalistic view on things you may find this queer, but that's how it is for me. Also, American culture strongly influences European prsent culture on every level. It is quite a bit natural to feel more closeness to "Americanism" in the widest meaning of the word, than I do see a closeness to for example "Finlandism". I learned English language at school, not Finish. I was influenced by American contemporary culture and lifestyle, not finish culture. Despite my bitter criticism of Us policies and motives, nevertheless i am not antiamerican per se. Quite the opposite. You may see me as an annoying, citical, constantly complainign friend, but a friend i am nevertheless.

And lastly, I was busy in therapy projects for traumatized people from the Balkans, and torture victims. The individual suffering and the simple horror to need to live on with what one has experienced, leaves me speechless until today, and confronted me with some of the most intense and emotional experiences of my whole life. Let me cut it short by saying that I learned how the word "trauma" really is spelled. And this by only having had a verxy close, but still outside view on it. You probably cannot imagine how literally i take it when using a phrase like "a shattered soul", or "a body without a soul in it". The misery and suffering behind the words in the news headlines when statistics get reported dealing with posttraumatic stress syndrome is no abstact concepot for. I got closer an idea of what these kinds of psychological pains are about than I initially wished for. I am unable to ignore it and not to react to news related to such things. I once had a - relatively mild - related experience myself when witnessing a major terror boming in Berlin in my youth at very close range. All these different things may not be Iraq-related stress snydroms, but it all is symptoms of one and the same thing: traumatization due to experiences of extreme violence, danger, and fear of death.

and one thing: the whole issue of leaving vets behind is disgusting in itself, beyond the nationality, which I do not care much for in this context. I repeatedly red about Gulf vets, and visited according sites of veteran organisations, and learned by their statistics that stress syndromes, and problems with getting support from the military if you suffer from gulf War Syndrome by far is no rare event - it just is talked small by the Pentagon, back then, and today. If you lead your people to war on the basis of manipulation, lies, and ridiculous intentions that border to crime, then at least you should take care of the people that are risking their heads for your unscrupellousness. and when you let yourself getting ceölebrated as the bringer of democracy and the holy knight in shining armour, the last thing you owe to your followers is that you support them in their suffering you have brought upon them by the best m,eans available to you. The whole bigottery of the military pathos is unmnasked by these scandals. I honestly believe that irresponsible suckers like Bush and Blair must me court-martialed and executed. for me they compare to soldiers who start to fire at their own comrades.

I am happy that I decided aginst the military back then. I evaded a course in getting turned into a piece of meat with a number stamped on it. To fight, to get killed or crippled, for this you are good enough. But when you need the country that you thought you woudl defend, the polical leadership lets you down, and may even cut your pension, calling this "to contribute your share to the cause". As if vets who return mentally and/or physically hurt or crippled haven'T already done that. Cynism at it's best. It shows what dirtbags in command we are talking about.

Something tells me that sooner or later Germany will have to deal with things like this, too. The Afghanistan mission is being carried by so much political naivety and incompoetence that it is a micracle that the german losses still are "reasonable". But we too already have to deal with many dozens of soldiers returning fromt heir tour who are in long-time treatment for post-traumatic stress syndrome. It's just that it is hidden from the German public.

P.S. mike, you said "Given the fact that you've never served in any military, what do you care about the American health care system (or the US military, for that matter)? " - you may want to take a mental note that I avoided any comment on the scandal you currently have in the US so far, although the headlines are telling of it since days and weeks now. I just wanted to evade to give the impression I was riding another cavalry attack against America. This actual thread was on a British scandal, so your question why I care for US health care and US army is somehwat pointless. ;)

I would say that Finland post WW2 is even more "Americanized" than Germany.:lol:

The VA has never done me wrong and will bend over backwards to help you. At least here in Connecticut anyway.

The real issue is Walter Reed Hospital is in serious disrepair. This should have been addressed long ago. A general was relieved of duties yesterday as a result.

I know. I'm just responding to the VA critics with my personal experience.

Understood. Walter Reed is supposed to be the flagship of VA hospitals. It is not in a good light right now.:nope:

I was in a Con. Law class one time, and we were discussing 'preference' based state sponsered (sp) legislation, and some Nader type two rows back from me who had earlier in the day argued the Constitutionality of race based initatives, then proceeded to argue against the Constitutionality of Mass. legislation that gave a preference to those who were former active duty personnel. I then countered that since the state called these people up to fight for their country then the state can give them hiring preferences for state job, and didn't not apply to the "strict scrutiny" standards the USSC has set for race based legislations.

This broad, and that is what I am going to call her, said, "I can't believe this, the government gives them their own hospitals."

I about came unglued and had to be restrained from coming over the rows in that classroom.

Ignorant leftist cant...