TMA Legs
 

Hi

Just wondering what peoples formula's are for TMA Legs?
I mean

How many legs you do?
What degree of turn you do on your legs?
And how long distance are your legs?

Thanx

Best is doing something like Z letter .. more then 90 degrees turns .. and time between legs has to be enough for several lines. Also add some time to TA to turn too, because it takes some time .. for this reason it is good idea to have it extended from about one third, so it does not lag that much. You mostly do TMA legs when you only have the contact on TA, so this is important.

If you have the contact on other arrays too, try to extend TA as much as possible, it will allow you to triangulate from two arrays and you get quite good range estimate without full TMA.


Full Z is optimal .. to move target from one side of the boat to the other side is usually enough .. sometimes even slight course changes allows you do TMA quite right.

Thanx Sid

Go to subguru.com and watch my video TMA: An Accurate Solution (I couldn't think of a better name for it). It will show you how to do what was said above.

Hi Sonobuoy.

Actually it as in response to your video i asked this question.
Thanx for the Video and it really helps.
I just wanted more info on the "Z" itself.

If I've decided to try to get an Ekelund range, usually 5-6minute legs are good enough. I usually do a 30-60 degree turn. It makes my math easy. My whole world is 30-60-90 triangles. :know:

If I'm using DEMON to determine range, I will point as close to the target as I can without losing him in the forward end fire to determine his direction of relative motion. 5-6 minutes is good. I try to get 3 line of bearings, and then update it from there. Sometimes I use this technique without DEMON and just guess at the speed. It usually gets close enough provided you pick something reasonable.

Another thing I use a lot, is to just go from a lag to an overlead course, and get the minimum and maximum possible ranges. Just being able to bound his range is usually enough to shoot on. Knowing that, I usually guess that he's someplace close to the average of the two.

The thing about TMA is that while being very accurate is definitely helpful and increases your torpedo effectiveness, for the purposes of shooting, it's good enough to just be close (within a mile or two) because the torpedo's seeker will take care of your area of uncertainty. Just on the basis of search rate, an ADCAP torpedo is one of the most powerful sensors in the game. Because of that, I'd say that unless you're just fascinated by the mathematics of it all, you don't need to obsess over getting the absolute most perfect solution.

I agree with much that has been said above paricularly as it it applies to opposing the AI or unwary MP sub skippers.

However in MP sub v sub torp engagements are unrealisticaly* longer ranged and require raising tactical considerations above the mechanistic. It is not IMO appropriate to fixate on rigid TMA procedures. More a flexible approach requires course adjustment/s to place target in a beamed lag relative position whilst building the picture.

Injudicious change of course as prescribed in zig-zagging could take you from lag to lead throwing an anchor line** on the wary opponents TMA display. This will give away your specific range. The problem, at greater ranges, is that in pursuit of lag you hold a broadly reciprocal course and therefore are opening range. A carefull assessment of means of masking your risky turns and range reduction have to be devised. (Topography, layer, neutrals etc.) ***

Initiating TMA techniques should be secondary to good tactics.Much depends on your take on your degree of stealth/surprise and opponents skill/ability to prosper from any careless 'dancing' moves.

Edits:
* 'Knife fights' 1 - 4 nm it is claimed are 'realistic.'
** Construct your own scenario to observe the 'anchor line' range giver.
*** OR just gamble !! Sometimes you have to make a trade-off - giving to get ! Egs. change layer, speed and course early before he catches on !

Your turns should make it harder for opponent, not easier .. I don't get this ..

Your thinking defensively !

I hope that we are talking positive aggressive TMA to achieve an accurate firing solution. Nobody said no turns - just dont give anything away easily (''injudicious') 'before you assess which tacking course/s (zig-zagging) will get you a solution before he does.

Yep there is a time and place for screwing his solution with speed, depth and course changes. I just like to send my fishes first on the money then I'll worry about fooling his 'solution.' :D

Edit: Anyway I risk predjucing my own MP so wont add any more to these Fleet course techniques . A Seawolf silently moves out into the estuary - to return ?

Again thanx for replies.

The Z in my video is nothing more than a clear illustration of what I'm doing. You don't have to make it a Z shape.

I think I will go and experiment with the turn giving away range thing.

Perhaps this should make it clear:

Hm ! Interesesting .. must try that .. this calls for change in my tactics .. I play mostly against AI anyway.

Blackjack was a officer on a US submarine in real live.

I've just played few missions against AI and this is really helpful .. anytime target is going from lead to lag (or vice-versa), the place where LOBs crosses is very very close to the place where the target really is.

With lead situation LOB's crossing means maximum range .. with lag it means minimum range .. on transition it means exact range. It can really be deadly in MP I guess, especially if your contact tries to change from lead to lag by itself to get his TMA better.