SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - Enemy task forces disappearing, Impossible to intercept task force!

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- - Enemy task forces disappearing, Impossible to intercept task force! (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=253411)

Quote:

Originally Posted by propbeanie (Post 2824600)

This particular group is a grouping of merchant vessels (hence the 8 knots). However, since an Isle Trawler is listed as "Leader", it does show as a Task Force.

The Rime of the Ghost Task Force

And I had done a hellish thing,

And it would work 'em woe:

For all averred, in command I preferred

A lowly fisher fellow.

Ah wretch! said they, he won't know the way,

A lowly fisher fellow!

...etc etc

They're doomed. Doomed I tell thee. To Hell (i.e. Southend) with them all.

Well Steve_i400, I should have said the RND layer, not the SCR... What you are "seeing" (on the NavMap, not on the bridge) is probably this group:

https://i.imgur.com/r4RnApW.jpg

That is just west of Liverpool. Notice the 2x Isle Trawlers as "Leader Entry". Notice also that there is the chance at more. You also would have a minimum of 3 random freighters, as well as a chance at more.

Here is the grab of the scene just before the grouping "disappears on you:

https://i.imgur.com/p9uui4S.jpg

You do have TC going, and it is night. The weather is an unknown factor in your vid. I cannot quite see your distance measurements with the compass... but here is that area in another Mission Editor grab:

https://i.imgur.com/sqTUG5d.jpg

Notice here in the "Properties" that the grouping has a 75% chance of spawning every 129 hours (5.375 days). It also has a 10% chance of generating a Contact Report every 150 minutes (2.5 hours). You would think that would mean once every 25 hours, but alas, the game doesn't work like that. You are hitting several reports in a row apparently, then nothing... There are other similar groups also, running similar routes in various time frames. Now, the TC seems a pinch high for hunting, and who knows how far behind you are by the time you are getting the Contact Reports. The group might already be by you. Lastly, depending upon the time frame, they might have radar since they have DD in the grouping, and you are rather easy to "dodge"... But definitely not a Task Force. :salute:

Fine.
propbeanie has been nicely shown, once again, what group is discussed here. :yeah:
A TaskForce which is a TaskForce which is not a TaskForce.
That should be clear now.

Well, the group on my GWX v3.0 Gold is named "English_Convoy2".

Why it disappears then?
It disappears because this specific Leader-entry of the group is Class-spezified (Class=MSTrawler) and this Class is not there at this time (April 27 1940). It will introduced first on 19410426 as seen in Roster.
What i have written in post#8 is the End of the story. This here is the Beginning. It will häppen on both ends.
For the scripted campaign (SCR) this may not relevant. But for the random campaign (RND) it is essential and misleads to some bad quirks.

Even this group is introduced by GWX - this group still does not exist in original SH3 v1.4b, the underlying reason why it disappears is a SH3 quirk and is already shown in the original SH3 Campaign_RND.mis for example in "RndGroup 82". We all must be happy that the game will not crash here.

What is the "fix" then? :doh:
There are several possibilities to go around this quirk:
o do not use GWX
o delete the entire group
o delete - or comment out - the Class= entry, Make sure the remaining Type= still exist at that time
o use a Leader that still exist at that time
o use another LeaderNumber
o maybe more...

BTW, my actual mySH3-TooL will find this crap.
Read the docu.

Code:

[RndGroup 1];GroupName=English_Convoy2;Category=0;CommandEntry=0;Long=-388600.000000;Lat=6403000.000000;Height=0.000000;DelayMin=60;DelayMinInterv=7740;SpawnProbability=75;RandStartRadius=0.000000;ReportPosMin=150;ReportPosProbability=60;Heading=328.583282;Speed=8.000000;ColumnsNo=2;Spacing=900;DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true;CurrentInstanceID=0;GameEntryDate=19400115;GameEntryTime=0;GameExitDate=19430510;GameExitTime=0;NextWP=0;;

[RndGroup 1.RndUnit 1];Class=MSTrawler;Type=0;Origin=British;Side=0;CargoExt=-1;CargoInt=-1;CfgDate=19390101;No=2;Escort=false;SpawnProbability=100;CrewRating=2;;

--CHECK-- ME GameEntryDate/GameExitDate vs. Roster ==>______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________19410426______________________________---ok---

This code is extracted and renumbered for simplification.

HTH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hebe Vollmaus (Post 2824882)

.....There are several possibilities to go around this quirk:
o do not use GWX

I'm going to shave your eyebrows when you go to sleep. :o:D

What you are saying then Hebe, is that the database of the game tracks the Group fine, but cannot "spawn" the Group since the Leader cannot spawn, correct??... the "easy" fix then is to change the Leader unit, and make the Isle trawlers a percentage call for later in the game's timeframe.

So riddle me this then Hebe, if a ship is NOT the leader, will it cause trouble when the group attempts to spawn, if prior to the ship's "existence"? SH4 does not do this. It just spawns the ship... it might be "naked" without a skin, but it spawns... :salute:

Quote:

Originally Posted by propbeanie (Post 2824912)

Correct - yes.
But what may be easy in the first place can be a month later a not that good idea, you know. In this special case here i would change the Leader into a chargo to get rid of the TaskForce-icon. Spawnproblem solved also at the same time.
In general one must get the cause of the existence of such a group when it comes to change its Timeframe (GameEntry- ExitDates) in the Campaign-file.
I think some of the groups are not there for fun only, or made for a specific time-scale. For example one group for one year. Keyword Loadout.
It may also be easy, to change the Roster-Dates (AppearanceDate DisappearanceDate) with the same consequence. In SH3 you drive a screw in one area, and an unwanted result will pop up one month later.

Quote:

So riddle me this then Hebe, if a ship is NOT the leader, will it cause trouble when the group attempts to spawn, if prior to the ship's "existence"? SH4 does not do this. It just spawns the ship... it might be "naked" without a skin, but it spawns... :salute:

Looks like SH4 is different in some more things.
Also Yes here. But i would not use the word 'trouble'. If a Unit in RND is not the Leader in a group, the group will simply spawn without this unit. The unit will spawn when the time is right, when the unit is build or "Commissioned".

Greetings.

Oh My! Seems being 'Correct' has now entered SH Games.
So now We must follow "Woke" rules?

Then I guess We should rid the Games of ANY NON-PROPER things just because some people don't LIKE that!
Freaking Cry Babies!

Congratulations on your movement. I'll be on my way and no longer be around these parts.

Radio reports in SH are instantaneous. Which means that at the precise time a plane spots them, you get the precise direction and speed of the target at that precise moment.

Task forces are fast! Really fast! So most likely they slowed down while turning and such at the moment you received the report.

So while the report was correct at the time, they most likely kicked themselves into full gear shortly after. Good luck!