Night Time Surface Attack?
 

A few nights ago I came across a TV show called 'Hell Below' on the Smithsonian channel I think that is about submarines during WWII. There are a few U-Boat episodes, a handful of Royal Navy episodes, and several U.S. Subs in the Pacific episodes. The episodes about the U.S. Subs like the Tang, Wahoo, and Harder are my favorite. Anyway in one of the episodes they talk about how some U.S. Navy captains would conduct surface torpedo attacks at night, sometimes from within the convoy. I believe it was Richard O'Kane who did this while commanding the Tang, but don't hold me to that. While watching that I thought that would be great if I could do that in SH-IV but I know there is no way that could be done with the way the game is now. I am running TMO with RSRD-Campaign and a couple of minor environment mods. The closest thing I have been able to do to that is at night with heavy heavy seas I have come up from very deep (like 500 feet) to periscope depth at 2 kts, and if I time it right I can come up within a convoy. I know if I where to surface they all would fill me full of holes. A precious few times I was able to time everything just right and fire off all 10 tubes to cause allot of havoc, and if my guys can reload fast enough sometimes the confusion is enough to fire off 3 or 4 more mk 14's before I launch a couple of decoys (if it's after late '44) and then crash dive below the layer to hopefully make good my escape.


Is there any Mod or Mods that could approximate this, or any way to alter or tweak the game to carry out a night time surface torpedo attack? Just from playing SH-IV for a decade or so it seams that visibility is an equal two way thing. If you can see them then you can be seen, while on the surface anyway. I think it would be an interesting and fun new way to approach a night time attack. Any and all info would be appreciated.

not really..... because the AI can only simulate enemy capabilities by using percentages. the AI cannot simulate fear, visual recognition, training(or lack there of), confusion, fog-of-war. all it's got is percentages.

after thousands of career-missions, i can remember being able to successfully execute a surface torpedo attack just once. and i was scared s%itless...simulated, of course: too many simultaneous things happening and you are running the entire boat.
also, as you indicated above, once you are detected, the enemy becomes deadly-lethal very quickly.
some guys will respond here that they can do it with regularity however i suspect that the AI-capabilities were turned very favorably towards the Kaleun.
keep in mind that only certain WWII skippers, at the right opportunity, were able to successfully prosecute a night surface attack.

:Kaleun_Salute:

<snip some>

Good point. In reality it couldn't be that easy or just about all the skippers would have done it all the time and then the Japs would have to had come up with a specific counter measure or strategy, and then it would have become a bigger part of the game. If one where so inclined how would one (and by one I mean I) change the percentages that control how good the Jap ships are at spotting me? Is there a way to change/adjust the AI?



It would be great if SH-IV had a screen where you could change the probability of things happening, or the skill level of the Jap ships by changing sliders that went from Zero to One-hundred. Like a slider for probability of being spotted by enemy merchant ship, and another for probability of being spotted by enemy war ship.Then another one for the skill level of the escort ships at ASW. And then another set of sliders for how good you and your crew are at various things, like ability for evading depth charge attack, and a slider for how quiet your boat is when at silent running, and/or at silent running below the layer. One for how good you are at torpedo solutions if you are an auto targeting user like myself.... I could go on and on. Oh well, wishing doesn't make it so, and one in the hand is worth two in the bush... or maybe I'm thinking of a stitch in time saves nine... or no... it's never eat cheese before noon....
..... never mind....

"Is there a way to change/adjust the AI?"

Yes. Go to \Data\Cfg\Sim.cfg, open with notepad (it's a text file).

Find;

[Visual]
Detection time=0.5 ;[s] min detection time.
Sensitivity=0.1 ;(0..1) min detection threshold double detection time.
Fog factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Light factor=2.5 ;[>=0]
Waves factor=4.0 ;[>=0]
Enemy surface factor=50 ;[m2]
Enemy speed factor=25 ;[kt]
Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=1.0

Experiment with increasing the light factor, adjust to taste. This affects only the enemy AI, your own crew is in other files.

There is one thing you could try if you can get in the right position that is.

If you can find an unarmed Merchant and sail right next to it, the enemy will be reluctant to fire on you because of the merchant.
I found this out by chance, I sailed next to a damaged merchant and the DD's just circled me not firing, I then realised it was because of the merchant.
Again a similar incident, I was playing as a ship and a DD rammed me but got stuck next to me, the DD's again would not fire till the stuck DD eventually separated from me.

Going back to SH2, I once hid right next to a sunken ship, it was in shallow water by the way but the DD's went right by looking for me and I got away, but this was in SH2 so obviously things are slightly different in SH4 but food for thought.

Col.

I know the stories of the great sub skippers of WW2 by either reading books or TV programs. 'Mush' Morton, Dick O'Kane and Sam Dealey all managed attacks that relied on a perfect confluence of luck and skill. There's the 'unknown' factor that can't be duplicated. I personally have conducted attacks that resulted in unbelievable fortune; e.g. 2 ships sincking from one torpedo because they were too close together.

On the other hand, I have not done well with night attacks. This is strange because the optimum time for a sub attack. The biggest problem I've run into is optics that don't do well at night. I have prosecuted attacks using a combination of sonar and radar, but I believe that was more luck than skill.

I watch these programs and get excited about a new attack technique and want to try it out and it fails. I keep in mind that SH is a sim and the algorithms are based on percentages. As mentioned, variables like fear and luck can't be factored in. With all that being said, it's still a lot of fun!! FWIW

:Kaleun_Salute::Kaleun_Salute:

you (we) are not supposed to be changing these options. :D
thinking of previous releases of SH, Ubi made modding more difficult with SH4 in several ways.
fortunately, we have many intrepid modders who looked behind the curtain and figured out how to "change the conditions of the test".
:Kaleun_Salute:

Yes, quite possible as I do it often in TMO. However, it all depends(as in real life) on the light conditions and other factors. In most cases will not be able to get as close as O Kane etc did on surface, esp in later war when they convoys had large numbers of escorts , many with radar. I added the convoy O Kane attacked in Koshiki Straits in June 1944. Six big merchants, 12 escorts. I had to lower their skill level so was possible to move about in the convoy. However with 12 escorts and on the surface, with shallow water below, still real danger. Attack went off much as the Tang did, quite intense. One shell from an escort landed so close, did not hole my boat but caused some damage from the explosion of the near miss.. If you are playing stock, night surface attacks are nearly impossible. Far too light out at night.

Have to disagree, the night surface attack became standard and preferred method used by US sub skippers around end of 1943 and to end of war as they saw the success the Germans had as well as the few US skippers who took the initiative to us this method of attack. The US Navy even began "Convoy College" training subs in night surface tactics on friendly convoys in Hawaiian waters. Searchlights simulated gunfire if I recall. Sometimes fired practice torpedoes. I've thought about writing realistic training missions for the new construction career in TMO.

Very cool. Thank you. Much appreciated.


Also, would you happen to know how to edit the abilities and the names of the crew on your boat? And also how to change the number of officers and crewmen you are allowed to have on the boat? From all the looking around I have done on my own it looks as if changing the number of officers and what not on the boat can be a little tricky. I guess to sum up what I am trying to ask is, where is the location of the file or files, to be edited with notepad, that allow me to change and alter my crew to my will?



I like the idea of rotating personal on and off the boat regularly but there seams to be only a small pool of made up crew for the game to draw from, because I swear one time when I wasn't paying attention I ended up with the same crewmen at 3 different positions. Then I started to pay close attention and realized that the game cycles all the crew, I guess randomly, threw to be available when you are at base between patrols regardless if you already have that guy or not. That's a little goofy.



When I think about he amount of experience and knowledge here gathered about all the Silent Hunter games it's staggering. I haven't come across any other game anywhere that has a community like this. I wonder what it is about these games that lends them so well to being modified AND having a large and loyal fan base. The subject matter, the players, the type of game or the time period it's in, or because it's a simulation. Some times on long patrols at night when nothing is happening my mind wanders.

Nice. Very devious. If I have the opportunity I might try that.


I know in real life wayyy more often then not they would just fire away in the fog of war and all. I know allot of our destroyers accidentally shot up other friendly ships when they where aiming for Jap kamikaze planes that where flying low over the water in and among our ships. I can not even begin to imagine what that was like to see that for the first time. Seeing a Val or Kate, or Zero without any damage or trailing smoke just pushing over and deliberately crashing into an American ship. Then just having to put it out of your mind so you can continue to function.



Unimaginable.


I am very thankful for Americas greatest generation. They are almost all gone now. God Bless Them.

This is me after almost every episode of "Hell Below" that's about an American skipper in the Pacific. Glad to know I am not the only one.

Did you ever find my env mod for mostly night attacks. I worked 100's of hrs messing with and testing it and never uploaded it always wanting a few more tweaks. I found I could get a more realistic night look and impact the enemy sensors with the env files that the sim.

Sadly, no, it seems lost unless you have it. What a great mod, wish you could create it again, really kept the danger of TMO alive but gave ability to do realistic night surface attacks without nerfing the escorts.

[QUOTE=Bubblehead1980;2687883]Sadly, no, it seems lost unless you have it. What a great mod, wish you could create it again, really kept the danger of TMO alive but gave ability to do realistic night surface attacks without nerfing the escorts.[/QUO

Yea, the old pc blew it was on and I only saved it there and in some emails I sent out, but i lost that email. I'll get my son to pull the hard drive out of that pc and see if I can get it.