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derstosstrupp 11-27-2020 11:16 PM

SH3 Historical Crew (Type VII)
 
IMPORTANT: This is NOT a mod - it is a way for players to mirror historical crew composition and watch schedules!

RECOMMENDED: GWX or NYGM crew fatigue options (8-hour GWX or NYGM’s similar system). SH3Commander (SH3C) is also a must!

I use NYGM in my examples throughout. I have not tested on GWX’s 8-hour system although it should work fine.

BACKGROUND - WHY?
Crew management in SH3 has long been a matter of debate - because it is not “automated” and we need to drag people around, is this a worthwhile task? Wouldn’t the commander not worry about such things? Yes, on both counts. While it wouldn’t have been the commander’s job to oversee watch changes, it was his job to connect with his men, get to know each and every one by name and know his experience. The other option - simply switching off fatigue altogether - seems off to me. I don’t care how much Pervitin your men swallow - in the final analysis they are still human!

This is the spirit of the system I will outline in the posts to come and the associated file - it reflects true (Type VII only for the moment) crew composition, watch schedules, and forces you to know each and every one of your men. With SH3Commander, when one of your digital Dietrichs transfers and you get someone new and train him up, you will know you fulfilled your responsibility to him and your men.

U-BOAT CREWS
Crewmembers fell into one of two “branches” - the seamen’s branch or the technicians’ branch - as determined by their chosen career path. The seamen’s branch consisted of the commander and his watch officers, the navigator, bosun and his mates, the torpedomen, and the sailors who stood as lookouts, helmsmen, and the cook. The technicians’ branch consisted of the chief engineer, his chief machinists, diesel and e-motor personnel, control room personnel, and the radiomen. Crewmen generally stayed with their boat until promoted, at which time they underwent training ashore for a number of weeks, and then were assigned to a new boat.

The seamen’s branch generally followed a 3-watch system - each with 2 watches of 4 hours apiece, with miscellaneous duties in between such as mess duty, peeling potatoes, cleaning the boat etc. In total this amounted to about 12 hours of work a day. The technicians’ branch on the other hand followed a 2-watch system (“port” and “starboard”), standing 2 6-hour watches but generally free from doing the more menial miscellaneous work that the seamen performed.

This division of labor created two “worlds” and no shortage of lighthearted “memes” for the men - the technicians were to the seamen the “men of the underworld with no appreciation for the sea”, whereas the technicians regarded themselves as skilled technical professionals with no time for the simple-minded wonders of the nautical world. “Komische Heinis, diese Maschinenleute....”, navigator Kriechbaum says in Das Boot - there you have it!

Now you too can feel like you share in this dynamic with the system I’ll present!

derstosstrupp 11-27-2020 11:19 PM

THE BASIC TYPE VII CREW
Below is the basic crew composition of the Type VII. It does not reflect any midshipmen, trainees, or other “Badegäste” such as PK men (like Buchheim) - 43 in total. These additional guests can be filled in as desired once you learn the system.

Officers (4):
Commander
Chief Engineer
1st Watch Officer
2nd Watch Officer

Chief Petty Officers (4):
Navigator
Bosun
Diesel chief machinist
E-motor chief machinist

Petty Officers (11):
2 Bosun’s mates
1 Torpedo mechanic’s mate
2 Radio mates
2 Control room mates
2 Diesel mates
2 E-motor mates

Nonrated Sailors (24):
6 seamen for bridge watch (split into 3 sea watches, each 4 hours)
3 helmsmen (split into 3 sea watches, each 4 hours)
2 radio attendants
2 control room attendants
2 torpedo “mixers”
4 diesel “stokers”
4 E-motor “stokers”
1 Cook

Below is a link to a file you can use to fill out your crew. Be sure to make a copy of this file, this is only a template. Details follow in the next posts.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...kUNcZrsXw/edit

derstosstrupp 11-27-2020 11:22 PM

FILE DETAILS

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

CREW LIST TAB
When starting a career, add the necessary petty officers and sailors to meet the numbers in the file. Then start and immediately end your first patrol in port. This allows you to launch SH3Commander again and select Manage Your Crew, where you can go through and assign your men the qualifications as listed on the Crew List. Fill in the crew’s names as well on the Crew List. Note that you can even assign qualifications to sailors with SH3C - this has no impact on the game but makes tracking who’s who substantially easier.

Now, when relaunching SH3 via SH3C, transfers may occur (be sure to select realistic crew transfers in the SH3C options)! Thus you may be leaving port with an unqualified man - that’s ok, update your Crew List for any gaps by putting him where needed and you’ll know what to give him when you return.

The Crew List tab also includes notes for each crewmember explaining where they sleep, where their duty station and possibly battle station is. These are also indicated elsewhere throughout the file.

WATCHES TAB
This tab breaks your crew down into the watch system by branch - seamen’s and technicians’, showing who stands each watch with a picture of the relevant compartment. Don’t worry about the times on this tab - they are listed there for reference. Use the Key Times tab to guide yourself through the watch changes themselves.

KEY TIMES TAB
This will be your most heavily-referenced tab. This tab shows the times at which men are moving around. Note the time and then place the indicated individuals at their relevant duty stations. Take your time and be patient! Moving men around will become second nature. Coming out of time compression to do so also affords you the opportunity to take a look around on the bridge, update your logbook if you are keeping one, and I feel it helps with the weather transition in game. Besides, you will find you develop a bit of a connection with your crew as you spend the time in the F7 screen, and it gives you something to do/manage.

SURFACED NORMAL TAB
This shows the placement of the crew during normal, non-combat surface travel.

SURFACED BATTLE STATIONS (TORPEDO)
This shows the placement of the crew during a surfaced torpedo attack.

SURFACED BATTLE STATIONS (GUN)
This shows the placement of the crew during a deck gun attack.

SURFACED BATTLE STATIONS (FLAK)
This shows the placement of the crew during a flak attack.

SUBMERGED BATTLE STATIONS
This shows the placement of the crew during a submerged attack or depth charge pursuit.

derstosstrupp 11-27-2020 11:27 PM

RANKS
SH3 only has ranks for the seamen’s branch (Matrose, Bootsmann etc). That’s fine - just follow the guidelines below for starting ranks:

1. The bosun (#1), both chief machinists, and the torpedo mate should take the 4 highest petty officer ranks.

2. The navigator wasn’t a commissioned officer in real life but we need him as one in game. Just don’t promote him from an Oberfähnrich.

3. The 6 lookouts and the cook take the lowest sailor ranks.

4. Bosun’s mate (#3) should not outrank bosun’s mate (#2).

5. Distribute the remaining petty officer and sailor ranks evenly across the remainder of the crew.

PROMOTIONS/TRANSFERS
Promotion in the Kriegsmarine was generally time-based, the length of time changing as the war progressed. Also, crewmembers generally stayed with their boats until promoted, at which time they attended training for the next level and were subsequently assigned to a new boat.

Here’s how we can handle promotions and transfers:

1. Use the “realistic crew transfers” in SH3C to handle transfers at the basic level. JScones and Beery did quite a bit of research to make these transfers realistic.

2. Let SH3 dictate when promotions occur (that is, after patrols). When this happens, do the following:

- To simulate the time-based promotion system, of all eligible personnel up for promotion, choose the man who has completed the most patrols.

- Roll a six-sided die. On a 1, the individual DOES NOT promote and stays with your boat. Repeat the process with another eligible man. On a 2-4, dismiss him and replace him with a lowest-ranking man. On a 5-6, dismiss him and replace with someone of equal rank. If you have to pay for it with renown and don’t have enough, then get what you can afford!

AWARDS
These are largely up to you with a few guidelines. Use SH3C to award medals, but do not go overboard with it!

1. Everyone receives the U-boat war badge after their second patrol.

2. Iron Cross 2nd Class to the crew only after a very successful patrol (20k tons or so) and/or one requiring valiant effort from the crew (damage control etc). Also after you earn the Knight’s Cross.

3. Iron Cross 1st Class was seldom awarded to crew. Do so in very rare cases, and give preference to those men who had foregone getting promoted to stay aboard (for whom you rolled a 1). Remember, IC1 only comes after receipt of IC2!

derstosstrupp 11-27-2020 11:29 PM

Reserved - Video Demonstration

John Pancoast 11-27-2020 11:58 PM

Looks interesting ! Few things, you're probably aware of them.

- You mention using the NYGM fatigue system but it only uses 36 men. I take it you're only using the actual fatigue.cfg info. ?

- I notice there are never any men in the torpedo rooms for either a surface or submerged torpedo attack ?

- Some of the qualifications in SH3 do nothing. Helmsman and medic, i.e.

- Second qualification for Petty Officers does nothing.

- Qualifications for ordinary seamen do nothing.

- I assume the last three points are for graphical purposes only ?

Looking forward to printing this out !

BritTorrent 11-28-2020 07:05 AM

Excellent tool. I really like little additions like this that add to the immersion.

derstosstrupp 11-28-2020 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Pancoast (Post 2709872)
Looks interesting ! Few things, you're probably aware of them.

- You mention using the NYGM fatigue system but it only uses 36 men. I take it you're only using the actual fatigue.cfg info. ?

- I notice there are never any men in the torpedo rooms for either a surface or submerged torpedo attack ?

- Some of the qualifications in SH3 do nothing. Helmsman and medic, i.e.

- Second qualification for Petty Officers does nothing.

- Qualifications for ordinary seamen do nothing.

- I assume the last three points are for graphical purposes only ?

Looking forward to printing this out !

Hi John thanks! With NYGM I need to top off the crew by adding people. Correct, no people in the torpedo rooms although the torpedo men would be in real life. You could simulate it, I really just only use the torpedo men for reloading. The qualifications are mainly only for tracking purposes.

John Pancoast 11-28-2020 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp (Post 2709898)
Hi John thanks! With NYGM I need to top off the crew by adding people. Correct, no people in the torpedo rooms although the torpedo men would be in real life. You could simulate it, I really just only use the torpedo men for reloading. The qualifications are mainly only for tracking purposes.

Sounds good thank ! Definitely going to try this out. Have you found having so many qualifications on the crew from the start screws anything up gameplay-wise ? Never fatigued, etc. ?

derstosstrupp 11-28-2020 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Pancoast (Post 2709928)
Sounds good thank ! Definitely going to try this out. Have you found having so many qualifications on the crew from the start screws anything up gameplay-wise ? Never fatigued, etc. ?

Oh no not at all. The NYGM fatigue system seems to be working as usual. I still have a bit of work left, I need to flesh out promotions and ranks, and then I’m going to do a video demonstration of a whole day.

John Pancoast 11-28-2020 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp (Post 2709930)
Oh no not at all. The NYGM fatigue system seems to be working as usual. I still have a bit of work left, I need to flesh out promotions and ranks, and then I’m going to do a video demonstration of a whole day.

Great, I really like the ideas behind this. Thanks for all the work ! Will add a much needed aspect to the game.

derstosstrupp 11-28-2020 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Pancoast (Post 2709932)
Great, I really like the ideas behind this. Thanks for all the work ! Will add a much needed aspect to the game.

Thanks John! And it can appear to be tedious, but honestly, once you have the schedule in your head, it really doesn’t detract much in my opinion.

John Pancoast 11-28-2020 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp (Post 2709946)
Thanks John! And it can appear to be tedious, but honestly, once you have the schedule in your head, it really doesn’t detract much in my opinion.

I agree; I don't turn off fatigue so in that case, I'm moving the crew regularly anyway so might as well have a better purpose for it.
This just adds to it ! Makes this aspect of the game much more personable, etc.

Really, really impressive effort. :salute:

Fifi 11-28-2020 11:01 AM

Something always puzzled me in SH3, is they completely forgot the helmsman (steering)... even in conning tower there is no BBC station!
Would be cool to have this guy 3D + animation...
Certainly as important as the 2 guys at the diving station

derstosstrupp 11-28-2020 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fifi (Post 2709951)
Something always puzzled me in SH3, is they completely forgot the helmsman (steering)... even in conning tower there is no BBC station!
Would be cool to have this guy 3D + animation...
Certainly as important as the 2 guys at the diving station

I agree - a very odd oversight on their part!


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