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-   -   T34 vs Tiger- Kursk 1943 coming soon! (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=158301)

frinik 04-18-10 01:31 AM

freedom
 
Kdf is only partly right, public display - exception made for films, plays and books dealing with WWII -of the National Socialist flag orthe Hakenkreuz( Swatiska) is banned in both Germany and Austria however games which incorporate the Swastika IL2 , Panzer Elite with mods and others are not banned. Games made in Germany or Austria however have to abide by local laws.But since ZW is a US citizen and so is his mod and in his country display of the Swastika is not forbidden then we're OK!

Anyway it's moot point because as bluemind said the Swasitka was only used in cases to avoid air attacks or straffing of German tanks (friendly fire we call it now in newspeak) by Luftwaffe planes particulalrly when using captured T34/76 or Soviet material used by the Wehrmacht.

The reach of the overpaid Berlin bureaucrats is not that long.Hopefully they'll turn their energies to more useful tasks like fighting child porn?????

I agree with Zee that freedom to think is primordial and Thank God that the USA offers at least that freedom to its people.That being said I also understand that Germany - as part of making amend for atrocities committed in its name - had to ban Nazi symbols but zealots as usual took that to ridiculous extremes.

Cheeers to freedom of choice and thought!:yeah:

LcSummers 04-18-10 07:50 AM

Mission report
 
Hello ZW, fellow members,

Mission report on Kursk version4. FPS were between 4.7 and 7.9. Most time around 6.3. Game has eimprovements, but had some sinking in front of second tophill before artillery beginns to fire. In the forrest the same thing (here alittle bit heavier in distance, more often) but you can switch 1 gear down and tank is coming out of "whole".

Now more enemy tanks are advancing and fighting :yeah:. ZW was that intended that all of our Tiger Tanks, except three or four, are waiting in the forrest and do not support us? Two Tigers were disabled in front of village, one with me included were advancing for village.

For my opinion there is still a little to much artillery. A little less and fps would increase. ZW, i know you said that this will be done in further missions, wanted to remind you.

Lets wait what the other beta tester are finding and reporting.



SWASTIKA

I only can say that ZW gives everybody the option to enable or disable that mod. So everyone can decide himself if he is doing that choice or not. This is a very fair option. :hmmm:


Waiting for other reports and orders.

LC

indebin 04-18-10 09:12 AM

Kursk V4
 
ZW
Fps starts at 5 then varies from 3.4 to 7. Swamp effect seems to be worse. Gunner position almost unusable as response is to slow, auto gunner seems to be on holiday most of the time. Still to slow for release I think.

ZeeWolf 04-19-10 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indebin (Post 1364206)
ZW
Fps starts at 5 then varies from 3.4 to 7. Swamp effect seems to be worse. Gunner position almost unusable as response is to slow, auto gunner seems to be on holiday most of the time. Still to slow for release I think.

I agree indebin this latest beta (v5) I sent out is as low as I'll go as far as reduction of objects. All the swamp effect work has been rolled back with
the firm conclusion that the effect is due to low fps. All the data and feed
back as of now indicates that the 3.0ghz due or equivalent is the minimum
to run Kursk mission 1 as it is now. That is just the cold facts. :yep:

But what is really necessary is to have some one say that it runs just fine
and would like to try my original build of Kursk mission 1 with the 150 Guns
with 6 inch barrels and the 4 batteries of Katyushas and large number of
enemy tanks. That would give the more accurate assessment of what is
required in order to remove all doubt and give those who can upgrade
a clearer picture.

Vor Kameraden! :salute:

ZW

PS LC I took your suggestion Kamerad !

LcSummers 04-19-10 12:45 AM

Downloaded
 
Hi ZW,

downloaded v.5 and installed. I follewed your instructions with uninstalling the mission with your uninstaller. I made this the 3rd time and now it works really well.

I am now to begin testing v.5 This will take its time.


Quote:

But what is really necessary is to have some one say that it runs just fine
and would like to try my original build of Kursk mission 1 with the 150 Guns
with 6 inch barrels and the 4 batteries of Katyushas and large number of
enemy tanks. That would give the more accurate assessment of what is
required in order to remove all doubt and give those who can upgrade
a clearer picture.

ZW i think this would only go if all four CPUs (my quad core) would be supported of the original TvT. I think, but you know it better and correct me if i am wrong, that the originla game is supporting only single or may be double core cpus.


Testing now and then report follows.

Nice and a sunny Monday Kameraden

LC :salute:

ZeeWolf 04-19-10 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LcSummers (Post 1364991)
Hi ZW,

downloaded v.5 and installed. I follewed your instructions with uninstalling the mission with your uninstaller. I made this the 3rd time and now it works really well.

I am now to begin testing v.5 This will take its time.


Quote:

But what is really necessary is to have some one say that it runs just fine
and would like to try my original build of Kursk mission 1 with the 150 Guns
with 6 inch barrels and the 4 batteries of Katyushas and large number of
enemy tanks. That would give the more accurate assessment of what is
required in order to remove all doubt and give those who can upgrade
a clearer picture.

ZW i think this would only go if all four CPUs (my quad core) would be supported of the original TvT. I think, but you know it better and correct if i am wrong, that the originla game is supporting only single or may be double core cpus.


Testing now and then report follows.

Nice and a sunny Monday Kameraden

LC :salute:

I forgot to mention there is a small utility that works around the original
software's lack of multiprocessing it's called prioaff.exe

prioaff.exe works really well for working all your CPUs

If you want to check it out I will e-mail you all you have to do to get it
up and running with a simple Batch file I could write for you. It's easy as
pie LC. After you finish with v5 with how you are setup now I will prepare
all you need tomorrow first thing.:yep:

Cheers Kamerad und Kameraden!:salute:

ZW

LcSummers 04-19-10 02:18 AM

Report
 
Sinking was only once now great improvment. ZW the light version is that the most Tigers are waiting and are not advancing. Its not much difference in fps but its harder or may be impossible to reach target. Now only three tanks were advancing and every tank destroyed (including me.)

Gras is less, fps started with 8.9 and reached 4.9 for a very short time. Mainly 7.6 but reaching village it remained 5.3-5.5. For me it was playable had not that kind of trouble like indebin.
Gunners position worked well

ZW i know its hard (i dont critisize you and i never would because this is a fantastic game) but we have to reduce static artillery positions and artillery fire. These are eating to much fps and we want to have a fair gamplay . If that is not an option for you then we have to cut those Tigers (less driving vehicles) or envirionment. You are the programmer you should know were we you have to reduce. Maybe less positions or forrests or lessening landscape.
But i have experienced there is to much fire.

I know its frustrating but this is my opinion.

Look at your 3rd German mission. I reached 22FPS. I must say i really enyoyed it and this is what i mean of gameplay. Less but effective and really enjoyable. :rock:

Hope this report is not to hard but keep on your very good work. When those teething problems are solved (like those on the Panther) man this game will really rock you.


Thank you very much for your patience and good work ZW

LC


PS. I didnt read your last post now i will

LcSummers 04-19-10 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf (Post 1365016)
I forgot to mention there is a small utility that works around the original
software's lack of multiprocessing it's called prioaff.exe

prioaff.exe works really well for working all your CPUs

If you want to check it out I will e-mail you all you have to do to get it
up and running with a simple Batch file I could write for you. It's easy as
pie LC. After you finish with v5 with how you are setup now I will prepare
all you need tomorrow first thing.:yep:

Cheers Kamerad und Kameraden!:salute:

ZW


My good friend ZW,

should i kiss you? Sure lets have a try. If you are not to "overworked" and willing to do me that favour? Nothing can hold me off from making experiences. :D

I was really wondering that my quad core" was so "slowly" even with that graphic card. I think when that batch works and game is running well we have to think the other way around. (This is only an opinion)

We should know wich CPUs are used mainly by our, sorry i mean ZW members.
Its only an idea. For example: If the most part is using double cores, we should concentrate on this if thats so easy you said. When most part is using single core CPUs then we should go on with this version.

Dont make a decission right now. Think about it.
With more cores supported its sure we can implement more guns, tanks etc (as you intended) but with only a single core i think this is too hard too much stuff for that single CPU.


I really enjoyed this blog today :yeah:

Cheers


LC


PS: Frinik i hope you have a double core!

morttheslayer 04-19-10 03:50 AM

Kursk Pre Alph v.4 and tests
 
Hi Zee and Kameraden I'm behind as usual but here goes all points found to date (over several hours!). Nice sunny Monday morn here too BTW.

First uninstall of V.3 worked OK but left previous version with a small issue. (This is the Pre Kursk version BTW that installed fine and ran fine) after uninstall of Kursk v.3; I tested to check what was left and error message "can't load splash screen bitmap" came up. Menu can be selected but after selecting (any) mission loading ceases early and "Text" messsage comes up top of screen.

OK no panic as I thought what the uninstall took out - the new install (v.4) would put back and this assumption was correct. Added this point in case of future uninstalls give same probs to other members.

Now on with v.4

I tested with unlimited ammo and Immortal (there can be only one!!) mode. This is a mixed blessing as you can get as far as you want but when you leave the game you can't check why your tank company is holding back just outside village C (in this mission anyway!).

1. FPS raise ever so slightly by 1 or 2 FPS. No increase in gameplay or decrease in stuttering (noticeable anyway) from v.3 for me.

2. As a further test I lowered my existing setting so that Texture, Model, Land and Forest detail remained 100%, but grass water, shadows about 50% and less, I was fiddling up and down sliders as Tank drove over hills towards village C.

Result of lowering these specific settings - no different; didn't have time to lower all and test sequentially as this takes some time.

3. I am IMO taking a GPU hit more than a CPU hit - why? well when Tank is cruising towards village C with accompanying Tigers I switch between F6 and F5 in Commanders position and the FPS roll up and down like magic. It might seem blindingly obvious but there have been comments about CPU and other limitations so I cite this example as ON MY PC this is what happens. Variances are between (F6) 4.7 to (F5) 8.7. Not to be confused with F6 outside view and F2 Commanders "raised head out turret view with no binoculars" --- to avoid doubt here.

4. I notice some minor bogging down in some areas where fast turns are made but no show stoppers (IMO). Got bogged down by big AT ditch which I thought was strange (I mean it's summer) but reversed out OK.

5. I got behind the guns as I left my comrades to flank right and approach around some woods and over the AT ditch where it runs out towards Vlilage C. After going through village creating mayhem the soldiers manning the artillary positions just stood about allowing me to m/g and HE them to death.
I'd love it if on Tiger approach to guns soldiers could scatter/run away.

6. I finally had to leave the mission to get some sleep!! I didn't finish and couldn't check why my comrades stayed just outside the village (as immortal so not knocked out or finished mission). There wasn't much opposition left by then (couple of tanks AT guns on far right of map some distance away).

7. Observations - lovely battle area and big scenario with loads of Russian opposition. Just need a Uber Graphics card and tweake CPU to get this to run as we'd all like.
Not sure what happened to other tanks did they jam-up? v.3 they came thro village OK (but jammed up later!).

I would dearly like this mission as 1b and a lower object unit density version for 1a, that I could truly enjoy knowing there's better missions to be "unlocked" with an upgrade. There's not a lot wrong with this at all, it's just a step too far for my PC to run and give me a completely enjoyable experience. Nobody's fault and I see the need to maximise the potential of this awesome game which you are doing beyond doubt. Downside is it may put people without Uber rigs off, which will be a real shame as we all want this to be THE SIM and allow you to develop this to the limit (wait now !!! eventually :haha: when I've got that new GPU).

What do think about the 1a and 1b mission choice would this be possible it could be the best way to overcome the "current state of Hardware" issues??.

However -- We are getting there and no-one said it would be easy.

ZW You are The Man. The new models and terrain are superb/fantastic - and I still love you in that Panzer Commander sort of way. :up: :salute:
Seig - Mort

BlueMind 04-19-10 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf (Post 1365016)
I forgot to mention there is a small utility that works around the original
software's lack of multiprocessing it's called prioaff.exe

prioaff.exe works really well for working all your CPUs

If you want to check it out I will e-mail you all you have to do to get it
up and running with a simple Batch file I could write for you. It's easy as
pie LC. After you finish with v5 with how you are setup now I will prepare
all you need tomorrow first thing.:yep:

Cheers Kamerad und Kameraden!:salute:

ZW

I'm really interesting with this software too (I've a quad like LC)... And my next processor will be a quad too. Maybe it will help to play Kursk mission !
:D

morttheslayer 04-19-10 04:06 AM

I'm calling the last issue v.4
 
Zee I see everyone is calling the last version issued No5, well mine is the same but I'm calling it v.4 :88) Its mine now :haha:

ATB - Mort

LcSummers 04-19-10 04:10 AM

Drunken?
 
Hi Morty,

still drunken from your daughters marriage? :haha: (dont take that too serious). Or was training with 88mm shell to hard?

Where have you been? (or Mr. Bean):D Zw gave us a new update, we are testing version5. Its a lighter version.

Cheers and happy testing :hmmm:



LC


PS: did not saw your previous blog

LcSummers 04-19-10 04:27 AM

Mortys report
 
Hello again,


had the same experiences like you morty. Made some setup changes in graphics- the same no improvment.

As i think it has to be done that the original game is using only one core and it cant come up with the demands. Its is not only your PC that is suffering, mine too.

Your comrades leaving you behind is herer too. This will give you some more fps but its hard to fight the Russiian frontline.

Lets see what is happening when more cores are supported. Hopefully this will improve fps in a such kind of way, that ZW can put all his intended subjects like tanks etc.

Testing is going well, i like it to see how ZW is attacking this project in any way. Its really tremendous. :yeah:


LC

Hitman 04-19-10 07:01 AM

HI Zee, just received latest mission update and was wondering if you want an individual confirmation from us, to check that we all are receiving it.

Thanks :salute:

KdF 04-19-10 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf (Post 1365016)
I forgot to mention there is a small utility that works around the original
software's lack of multiprocessing it's called prioaff.exe

prioaff.exe works really well for working all your CPUs

If you want to check it out I will e-mail you all you have to do to get it
up and running with a simple Batch file I could write for you. It's easy as
pie LC. After you finish with v5 with how you are setup now I will prepare
all you need tomorrow first thing.:yep:

Cheers Kamerad und Kameraden!:salute:

ZW

Send that to me too...I have a Core Duo, and I'll check it out.
Allways like new programs.

morttheslayer 04-19-10 11:48 AM

Last into friggin battle again
 
Hi Zee and Kamaraden

Lc was right there was a new v.5 sitting in my Spam box trouble is I didn't notice it until midday today (I looked previously but it hadn't come through the gate yet).

I am keen to try the lighter version, pretty confident that Zee will have worked his customary magic and I will still get killed!!!
I'll go without the immortal claok this time (looks like another late night).

I think 2 versions of each mission would extend the life of this sim very significantly and give the members all the options needed for satisfying gameplay. I know Zee wanted all the "heavy" action to be fully realistic but we are exploring limitations of hardware and software capability. I'd hate all ZW's hard work to be put aside but in fact I see in about 6-12 months time lots more members getting HW that will cope with the "realistic" missions - perhaps that's what we should call the heavy version as it sound right!
I'd now like to thank Zee again for listening and giving such support to us I say again this is money more than well spent. If Zee had a garage your car would be perfection but he'd be bankrupt in a month :haha:

Lc How did you know I was still drunk ?? :har:
I put my slow responses down to the (as Zee said) culture shock I suffered in Scotland.
Not sure if you can truly get 2 Core response unless programme is specifically written, you can allocate other services (Like Track IR, Joysticks etc and background services from your "primary gaming core" but to specifically have a new programme written for Dual/Quad Cores is I think a bridge well too far!!! What is your Core speed Lc (less than 3GHz?).

Thanks Zee & Guys ATB - Mort :salute: (Ver5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

indebin 04-19-10 03:50 PM

v5
 
Hi ZW
Installed ok. Starts at 9fps-drops to 5 when the artillery starts-4.2 to 4.5 up to top of hill-4.2 to 5 down hill-drops to 3.5 as enter wood-5 to 5.5 to village. set as driver with auto-gunner just to see what happens-did not get knocked out till almost at village. Playable but still very jerky. This is with intel 9450-gigabyte x48ds5-4 gigs 1066-ati 4870.
Tried it on core duo 8400-asus p5q deluxe-4gigs 1066-ati 5770 and the fps were up 1.5 to 2 compared to the 9450.

morttheslayer 04-19-10 05:11 PM

Version 5 (I got there)
 
Hi Zee
Same as indebin, installed no problem.

Start to drive towards village artilliary starts and FPS running around 7.6 to 8.2 in F6 external view - same for Commanders open cupola riding i turret with outside all round views same as F6 (as you'd expect). F5 binocular view gives me 10 to 11 FPS which is nice. Overall improvement for me anyway with some FPS drops.

FPS dropped a bit when reaching the woods overlooking village C (i.e. N-E of the village) running around 5.6 to 6.3 and slightly jerky. This area was the worst for FPS hit.

After clearing out Village C framerate rose a bit to 9 to 10 FPS (F6).
Turnig attention to distant artilliary via the Katushka (spelling??!) rocket launchers (to N-W of village) FPS running at around 8 to 10 (F6 view) OK really but looks a bit jerky when watching tank travelling over terrain in close up views.

After dealing with Launchers (by running into them as I was low on ammo) noticed adjacent building suspended in the air due to me shooting it, or the distant artilliary gun hittting it while shooting at me.

Finally got to last artilliary positions located N-E of village (4 Guns I think) with two AT guns supporting; the framerate held up and was around 9 FPS average for this action.

Strange behaviour/prog for these last 4 Guns, I shot all the crews/soldiers, and they kept firing (spooky) enough to frighten any superstitious Ivan. I guess you've got to get a hit with your main 88 to destroy the Arty Guns but I was out of ammo. Then having disabled one AT gun (it still showed up on the map) and knocked out the other I had nothing left and had to exit.
I did operate in immortal mode finally, as my tracks were knocked out twice and I couldn't summon any Hannomags for repair although I tried. Don't know if they are programmed into this mission anyway.
As this was the case I couldn't see why the bulk of the support force remained on the outskirts of the village again. One solitary Tiger came up to the AT ditch and barbed wire - I got through but the other tank (I like to think it was Lc) :haha: got knocked out. That was my only support and it didn't last long.

Good job Zee I think I am just on the limit of playability when the FPS drop to say 5.6 to 6.3, happily (for me) this didn't last very long, but I feel for those members like indebin who suffer a big FPS hit.

Now interested to see what results the others manage.

Briefly: much much better for me, and I wouldn't like to have a lesser performance (FPS) then this. (This is a Very big map too - nice) :salute:

Thanks for the updates so far and hope this has been useful.
Best Wishes - Mort

frinik 04-19-10 10:23 PM

Instancing
 
Hi Morty!

Welcome back from the Highlands!

I was reading your post about your ATI Radeon gcs and there was an article I read about instancing particularly for ATI Radeon cards while gaming. Here's what it says "

The videoadapter does not support hardware Instancing. This will cause considerable performance decrease. If you have ATI Radeon videoadapter, enable Instancing support in the driver settings!\n\n;"


I don't know if this is relevant to you but might want to check if your ATI has instancing enabled and whether it makes any difference in your fps.

Cheers:rock:

LcSummers 04-20-10 01:38 AM

Hi
 
Hello Morty,


just to answer your question:

Quote:but to specifically have a new programme written for Dual/Quad Cores is I think a bridge well too far!!! What is your Core speed Lc (less than 3GHz?).


I have a 3.4GHz quad core. I think it is only a try with ZWs mentioned "prioaff.exe". It is not a must but its like beta testing. We will see the result if this tool will increase FPS or not.

Thats my opinion, if this tool doesnt give us a boost so we can continueing with version 5.

Cheers and a nice day for everyone


LC :woot:


PS: Oh my god i was promoted to engineer, does this mean i am here to overhaul only the engines (Maybach 230) of those Tigers and to see how my Kameraden are fighting without me?


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