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-   -   T34 vs Tiger- Kursk 1943 coming soon! (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=158301)

BlueMind 04-17-2010 08:45 AM

What I know, the swastika was only when they attack positions combined with aviation (principaly at the beginin of the war, but rarely in 1943) and was flags put by the crew on the rear top of the tanks (like bellow):
http://www.birminghamstories.co.uk/d...nzer_tanks.jpg
But if someone knows more, don't hesitate to give us some informations (or a link... I like learn about WW2... in english pls my german is worse than english).
:03:

It's a little boring for german gamers... Without gore, swastika... Your administration think you will go in war if you see too much blood or flags ?!?
:damn:
Europe is not what it was before... and people (mentality) is different too (IMO)

ZeeWolf 04-17-2010 12:12 PM

I hate talking politics because when I do (it seems) I always get in trouble
but here goes!

I thank God that I live in a nation that is stating to really awaken to the
fact that there is no freedom at all with out the base of freedom of
expression and speech. I do not say this to be smug or judgmental of other
nations but I do have to say that any government that is so afraid of what
is in a video game or on a plastic model is a tyranny that needs to be
overthrown. :arrgh!:

I say this especially for the US and UK puppet governments that have been
created after WWII to serve the "Internationalist(Globalist) Greed Machine"
and not at all for the people of those nations. :yep:

I for one am a law abiding citizen of America who is determined to live my
life as free from fear (from government) as possible. But please understand
that to live in Germany today you run the risk of jail, fine or imprisonment
by a puppet regime that has more concern for foreign interests then for the
German people. And THAT is a recipe for revolution- IMO. :up:

Cheers

ZW

morttheslayer 04-17-2010 01:48 PM

Politics Off Topic but swastikas on topic but agree ZW
 
Hi ZW - and it'll probably get worse!!
We live in what's called a "Nanny State" and it certainly is.
Criminals get more justice than the public, we in the UK just threw away common sense with a lot of other good stuff (mainly education) over the last 15 years. Now all is dumbed down for the majority of up and coming dorks.
Rant over but have to say modders put swastikas back where they should be in games - for example IL2 latest edition campaign Defence of The Reich by Flatspinman has lovely authentic skins for LuftW aircraft WITH SWASTIKAS lovely job. I'm all for authenticity.
If swastikas represent tyranny the hammer and sickle, and rising sun should also be banned IMO.
Finished now
ATB - Mort:salute:

morttheslayer 04-17-2010 04:15 PM

Kursk Pre Alpha Test Early Report
 
ZeeWolf:yeah:

What a spectacle!! I got shot up when I finally got to the buildings and wore out my engine. I should test in "immortal" mode but I'm a masochist.

I didn't finish but intend to. Things of note in order of (IMO), importance up to now:

1. First never mind the heavy action issues arising - what a brilliant job! You really feel the Ivans are out to nail you, I felt quite cowardly looking for cover!! Still I thought of Lc, Frinic, KdF, Eddie, Oilman and all the others being my Flack Magnets, and managed to bravely press on in the rear!!
Scenery excellent with wide and rolling tank country, just like - well, Kursk really.:D

2. Lost my good FPS I'm afraid now started at 6 dropped to 4.9 a few times and definately had a visit from the Judderman. Had a few good spells but mostly I'm struggling on the settings I detailed previously.

3. Good install worked straight off the shelf and I liked the menu layout
----- I know I know but I'm behind the curve on this!!

4. There was a flying Russian AT Gun (result of an explosion??) and a couple of dead in the air Russian soldiers. Minor really.

5. The tigers that got ahead of me were milling about clunking together some way outside the first group of buildings before reaching the rear artilliary positions.

I have a suggestion it's not rocket science and has been adopted in other sims (IL2 for example).
Would it be possible to have 2 identical missions for each objective say 1a. and 1b. The difference would be 1a could be a bit "lighter" units/effects/objects than the current Pre Alpha suitable for the lower end (even my PC!!) and 1b could be either left as is or enhanced and stored for future upgrades for those of us short in the pocket at present or played by those like Lc who have lots of spare cash :har:.

If this causes you unnacceptable work levels Zee I fully understand but I love to have all the scenery enhancements as much as possible for immersive effects. So this is just a thought for you at present, I'd love to run this mission smoothly as it's superb and I don't want to take out too much goodness either. I just need more funding eh!!!!

PS I still love you (In a manly Tiger Commander sort of way!!):salute:

PPS thanks for the promotion to Mate - I did notice:woot:

ZeeWolf 04-17-2010 05:49 PM

Excellent Mort, great work mate, :salute:
This is just in time for the new Kursk update that will up the fps a tad and
deal with the swamp effect with low fps. The turning at hi-speed is really
been improved as well as your ability to stay up with the other Tigers even
at low fps.
And LC the pull to the left is due to the terrain. There will be a pull to the
right if the right side of your Tiger is in decline too.
All things considered this one is really worth a try Mort and I would like to
know your opinion about being ready for the guys who are not beta testing
if they might enjoy it now. However the "A" mission and "B" mission is a fantastic idea and sure to be a welcome addition for the guys who have
trouble with low frame rates with this Kursk mission.

So stand by mate, in about 30 min. or so I will send you a new link for
this update v4. :up:

Cheers,
ZW

frinik 04-18-2010 01:31 AM

freedom
 
Kdf is only partly right, public display - exception made for films, plays and books dealing with WWII -of the National Socialist flag orthe Hakenkreuz( Swatiska) is banned in both Germany and Austria however games which incorporate the Swastika IL2 , Panzer Elite with mods and others are not banned. Games made in Germany or Austria however have to abide by local laws.But since ZW is a US citizen and so is his mod and in his country display of the Swastika is not forbidden then we're OK!

Anyway it's moot point because as bluemind said the Swasitka was only used in cases to avoid air attacks or straffing of German tanks (friendly fire we call it now in newspeak) by Luftwaffe planes particulalrly when using captured T34/76 or Soviet material used by the Wehrmacht.

The reach of the overpaid Berlin bureaucrats is not that long.Hopefully they'll turn their energies to more useful tasks like fighting child porn?????

I agree with Zee that freedom to think is primordial and Thank God that the USA offers at least that freedom to its people.That being said I also understand that Germany - as part of making amend for atrocities committed in its name - had to ban Nazi symbols but zealots as usual took that to ridiculous extremes.

Cheeers to freedom of choice and thought!:yeah:

LcSummers 04-18-2010 07:50 AM

Mission report
 
Hello ZW, fellow members,

Mission report on Kursk version4. FPS were between 4.7 and 7.9. Most time around 6.3. Game has eimprovements, but had some sinking in front of second tophill before artillery beginns to fire. In the forrest the same thing (here alittle bit heavier in distance, more often) but you can switch 1 gear down and tank is coming out of "whole".

Now more enemy tanks are advancing and fighting :yeah:. ZW was that intended that all of our Tiger Tanks, except three or four, are waiting in the forrest and do not support us? Two Tigers were disabled in front of village, one with me included were advancing for village.

For my opinion there is still a little to much artillery. A little less and fps would increase. ZW, i know you said that this will be done in further missions, wanted to remind you.

Lets wait what the other beta tester are finding and reporting.



SWASTIKA

I only can say that ZW gives everybody the option to enable or disable that mod. So everyone can decide himself if he is doing that choice or not. This is a very fair option. :hmmm:


Waiting for other reports and orders.

LC

indebin 04-18-2010 09:12 AM

Kursk V4
 
ZW
Fps starts at 5 then varies from 3.4 to 7. Swamp effect seems to be worse. Gunner position almost unusable as response is to slow, auto gunner seems to be on holiday most of the time. Still to slow for release I think.

ZeeWolf 04-19-2010 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indebin (Post 1364206)
ZW
Fps starts at 5 then varies from 3.4 to 7. Swamp effect seems to be worse. Gunner position almost unusable as response is to slow, auto gunner seems to be on holiday most of the time. Still to slow for release I think.

I agree indebin this latest beta (v5) I sent out is as low as I'll go as far as reduction of objects. All the swamp effect work has been rolled back with
the firm conclusion that the effect is due to low fps. All the data and feed
back as of now indicates that the 3.0ghz due or equivalent is the minimum
to run Kursk mission 1 as it is now. That is just the cold facts. :yep:

But what is really necessary is to have some one say that it runs just fine
and would like to try my original build of Kursk mission 1 with the 150 Guns
with 6 inch barrels and the 4 batteries of Katyushas and large number of
enemy tanks. That would give the more accurate assessment of what is
required in order to remove all doubt and give those who can upgrade
a clearer picture.

Vor Kameraden! :salute:

ZW

PS LC I took your suggestion Kamerad !

LcSummers 04-19-2010 12:45 AM

Downloaded
 
Hi ZW,

downloaded v.5 and installed. I follewed your instructions with uninstalling the mission with your uninstaller. I made this the 3rd time and now it works really well.

I am now to begin testing v.5 This will take its time.


Quote:

But what is really necessary is to have some one say that it runs just fine
and would like to try my original build of Kursk mission 1 with the 150 Guns
with 6 inch barrels and the 4 batteries of Katyushas and large number of
enemy tanks. That would give the more accurate assessment of what is
required in order to remove all doubt and give those who can upgrade
a clearer picture.

ZW i think this would only go if all four CPUs (my quad core) would be supported of the original TvT. I think, but you know it better and correct me if i am wrong, that the originla game is supporting only single or may be double core cpus.


Testing now and then report follows.

Nice and a sunny Monday Kameraden

LC :salute:

ZeeWolf 04-19-2010 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LcSummers (Post 1364991)
Hi ZW,

downloaded v.5 and installed. I follewed your instructions with uninstalling the mission with your uninstaller. I made this the 3rd time and now it works really well.

I am now to begin testing v.5 This will take its time.


Quote:

But what is really necessary is to have some one say that it runs just fine
and would like to try my original build of Kursk mission 1 with the 150 Guns
with 6 inch barrels and the 4 batteries of Katyushas and large number of
enemy tanks. That would give the more accurate assessment of what is
required in order to remove all doubt and give those who can upgrade
a clearer picture.

ZW i think this would only go if all four CPUs (my quad core) would be supported of the original TvT. I think, but you know it better and correct if i am wrong, that the originla game is supporting only single or may be double core cpus.


Testing now and then report follows.

Nice and a sunny Monday Kameraden

LC :salute:

I forgot to mention there is a small utility that works around the original
software's lack of multiprocessing it's called prioaff.exe

prioaff.exe works really well for working all your CPUs

If you want to check it out I will e-mail you all you have to do to get it
up and running with a simple Batch file I could write for you. It's easy as
pie LC. After you finish with v5 with how you are setup now I will prepare
all you need tomorrow first thing.:yep:

Cheers Kamerad und Kameraden!:salute:

ZW

LcSummers 04-19-2010 02:18 AM

Report
 
Sinking was only once now great improvment. ZW the light version is that the most Tigers are waiting and are not advancing. Its not much difference in fps but its harder or may be impossible to reach target. Now only three tanks were advancing and every tank destroyed (including me.)

Gras is less, fps started with 8.9 and reached 4.9 for a very short time. Mainly 7.6 but reaching village it remained 5.3-5.5. For me it was playable had not that kind of trouble like indebin.
Gunners position worked well

ZW i know its hard (i dont critisize you and i never would because this is a fantastic game) but we have to reduce static artillery positions and artillery fire. These are eating to much fps and we want to have a fair gamplay . If that is not an option for you then we have to cut those Tigers (less driving vehicles) or envirionment. You are the programmer you should know were we you have to reduce. Maybe less positions or forrests or lessening landscape.
But i have experienced there is to much fire.

I know its frustrating but this is my opinion.

Look at your 3rd German mission. I reached 22FPS. I must say i really enyoyed it and this is what i mean of gameplay. Less but effective and really enjoyable. :rock:

Hope this report is not to hard but keep on your very good work. When those teething problems are solved (like those on the Panther) man this game will really rock you.


Thank you very much for your patience and good work ZW

LC


PS. I didnt read your last post now i will

LcSummers 04-19-2010 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf (Post 1365016)
I forgot to mention there is a small utility that works around the original
software's lack of multiprocessing it's called prioaff.exe

prioaff.exe works really well for working all your CPUs

If you want to check it out I will e-mail you all you have to do to get it
up and running with a simple Batch file I could write for you. It's easy as
pie LC. After you finish with v5 with how you are setup now I will prepare
all you need tomorrow first thing.:yep:

Cheers Kamerad und Kameraden!:salute:

ZW


My good friend ZW,

should i kiss you? Sure lets have a try. If you are not to "overworked" and willing to do me that favour? Nothing can hold me off from making experiences. :D

I was really wondering that my quad core" was so "slowly" even with that graphic card. I think when that batch works and game is running well we have to think the other way around. (This is only an opinion)

We should know wich CPUs are used mainly by our, sorry i mean ZW members.
Its only an idea. For example: If the most part is using double cores, we should concentrate on this if thats so easy you said. When most part is using single core CPUs then we should go on with this version.

Dont make a decission right now. Think about it.
With more cores supported its sure we can implement more guns, tanks etc (as you intended) but with only a single core i think this is too hard too much stuff for that single CPU.


I really enjoyed this blog today :yeah:

Cheers


LC


PS: Frinik i hope you have a double core!

morttheslayer 04-19-2010 03:50 AM

Kursk Pre Alph v.4 and tests
 
Hi Zee and Kameraden I'm behind as usual but here goes all points found to date (over several hours!). Nice sunny Monday morn here too BTW.

First uninstall of V.3 worked OK but left previous version with a small issue. (This is the Pre Kursk version BTW that installed fine and ran fine) after uninstall of Kursk v.3; I tested to check what was left and error message "can't load splash screen bitmap" came up. Menu can be selected but after selecting (any) mission loading ceases early and "Text" messsage comes up top of screen.

OK no panic as I thought what the uninstall took out - the new install (v.4) would put back and this assumption was correct. Added this point in case of future uninstalls give same probs to other members.

Now on with v.4

I tested with unlimited ammo and Immortal (there can be only one!!) mode. This is a mixed blessing as you can get as far as you want but when you leave the game you can't check why your tank company is holding back just outside village C (in this mission anyway!).

1. FPS raise ever so slightly by 1 or 2 FPS. No increase in gameplay or decrease in stuttering (noticeable anyway) from v.3 for me.

2. As a further test I lowered my existing setting so that Texture, Model, Land and Forest detail remained 100%, but grass water, shadows about 50% and less, I was fiddling up and down sliders as Tank drove over hills towards village C.

Result of lowering these specific settings - no different; didn't have time to lower all and test sequentially as this takes some time.

3. I am IMO taking a GPU hit more than a CPU hit - why? well when Tank is cruising towards village C with accompanying Tigers I switch between F6 and F5 in Commanders position and the FPS roll up and down like magic. It might seem blindingly obvious but there have been comments about CPU and other limitations so I cite this example as ON MY PC this is what happens. Variances are between (F6) 4.7 to (F5) 8.7. Not to be confused with F6 outside view and F2 Commanders "raised head out turret view with no binoculars" --- to avoid doubt here.

4. I notice some minor bogging down in some areas where fast turns are made but no show stoppers (IMO). Got bogged down by big AT ditch which I thought was strange (I mean it's summer) but reversed out OK.

5. I got behind the guns as I left my comrades to flank right and approach around some woods and over the AT ditch where it runs out towards Vlilage C. After going through village creating mayhem the soldiers manning the artillary positions just stood about allowing me to m/g and HE them to death.
I'd love it if on Tiger approach to guns soldiers could scatter/run away.

6. I finally had to leave the mission to get some sleep!! I didn't finish and couldn't check why my comrades stayed just outside the village (as immortal so not knocked out or finished mission). There wasn't much opposition left by then (couple of tanks AT guns on far right of map some distance away).

7. Observations - lovely battle area and big scenario with loads of Russian opposition. Just need a Uber Graphics card and tweake CPU to get this to run as we'd all like.
Not sure what happened to other tanks did they jam-up? v.3 they came thro village OK (but jammed up later!).

I would dearly like this mission as 1b and a lower object unit density version for 1a, that I could truly enjoy knowing there's better missions to be "unlocked" with an upgrade. There's not a lot wrong with this at all, it's just a step too far for my PC to run and give me a completely enjoyable experience. Nobody's fault and I see the need to maximise the potential of this awesome game which you are doing beyond doubt. Downside is it may put people without Uber rigs off, which will be a real shame as we all want this to be THE SIM and allow you to develop this to the limit (wait now !!! eventually :haha: when I've got that new GPU).

What do think about the 1a and 1b mission choice would this be possible it could be the best way to overcome the "current state of Hardware" issues??.

However -- We are getting there and no-one said it would be easy.

ZW You are The Man. The new models and terrain are superb/fantastic - and I still love you in that Panzer Commander sort of way. :up: :salute:
Seig - Mort

BlueMind 04-19-2010 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf (Post 1365016)
I forgot to mention there is a small utility that works around the original
software's lack of multiprocessing it's called prioaff.exe

prioaff.exe works really well for working all your CPUs

If you want to check it out I will e-mail you all you have to do to get it
up and running with a simple Batch file I could write for you. It's easy as
pie LC. After you finish with v5 with how you are setup now I will prepare
all you need tomorrow first thing.:yep:

Cheers Kamerad und Kameraden!:salute:

ZW

I'm really interesting with this software too (I've a quad like LC)... And my next processor will be a quad too. Maybe it will help to play Kursk mission !
:D


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