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-   -   Warship Wrecks - Found Or Not Found? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=89456)

Type941 02-14-06 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly
Or are they just too lazy to do it? :-j

Yup, that's it. :shifty:

authorshop 01-13-08 04:57 PM

Warship wrecks found or not found.
 
I know this topic was first mentioned a while ago now, but I am new to the site so here goes, I hope this is of interest to someone: With regards to the Nazi aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin; the wreck was located in 2006. It lies in some 85+metres in the Baltic sea. She is fairly intact, and stands tall off the sea bed. There are signs of extensive damage to her bow, superstructure and flight deck. If you are interested, I have written a book that is available through my website on www.withoutwingsonline.co.uk it contains 28 images and includes photo's of the wreck. I also provide a bit of background information on my site if you want to know more about the ship.

Regards, Steve Burke

Stealth Hunter 01-13-08 05:04 PM

The USS Indianapolis has never been found and probably never will be. An expedition set out to find it in 2005. They found lumps of coal and a few deckhouses. Nothing else. It sank in some of the deepest places on Earth (Mariana Trench is 45,000 feet deep...), so as I said, it will probably never be found assuming it even survived the plunge (munitions and all inside might have gone off whilst being smashed around; water pressure alone on them may have set them off).

authorshop 01-13-08 05:23 PM

Not sure what those guy's found, but it would seem very unlikely that the Indianapolis was coal fired. I have not looked in to this but I know she was only built in 1930's, I think everyone was using oil by then.
She will still be out there somewhere, and no doubt will one day be found. Remember, even large sections of HMS Hood still exists, and she had a magazine explode.

Stealth Hunter 01-13-08 05:40 PM

They found coal. That's all I know. They're starting to suspect it may have come from a Japanese destroyer, but they're not sure.

The Hood sank in waters not nearly 45,000 feet deep (45,000 comes from a tiny crack that continues to run downwards inside the trench bottom; nobody is sure where it stops). We're talking the deepest point on Earth here, not a couple of miles (like 2 or 3). The Trench is over 9 miles down. At the bottom, the water column above exerts a pressure of 108.6 MPa, over one thousand times the standard atmospheric pressure at sea level.

That's 8 tons PER SQUARE INCH, more than enough to cause a sinking battleship to implode, let alone destroy munitions inside.

The speed that the Indianapolis would have gained during her fall probably would be what would set off the munitions inside. Assuming it wasn't smashed to pieces upon hitting the bottom like a wooden dollhouse falling off a 50-story building, then it's highly unlikely that anything survived the explosions of bombs and shells.

bookworm_020 01-13-08 05:40 PM

If you want to add to the not found list HMAS Sydney, She went missing off the West Australian coast after fighting KSK Kormoran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...d_HSK_Kormoran

swifty 01-13-08 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Type941
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly
Or are they just too lazy to do it? :-j

Yup, that's it. :shifty:

She just has not started leaking enough to pose any major danger to the environment.

The Navy MUDSU 1 along with NAVSE SUPSALV recently offloaded 2 million gallons of oil from the WWII tanker USS Mississinewa (AO 59), destroyed by a suicide torpedo.

A Power Point of the salvage can be downloaded here: http://www.supsalv.org/essm/ppt/MISS_Web_Summary.ppt

Quote:

As of 2007, 66 years after the explosion that destroyed Arizona, oil leaks from the hull still rise to the surface of the water. The USS Arizona continues to leak about a quart of oil per day into the harbor.[1] Survivors from the crew say that the oil will continue to leak until the last survivor dies. Many of the survivors have arranged for their ashes to be placed in the ship, among their fallen comrades, upon their death and cremation. The Navy, in conjunction with the National Park Service, has recently overseen a comprehensive computerized mapping of the hull, being careful to honor its role as a war grave. The Navy is considering non-intrusive means of abating the continued leakage of oil to avoid the further environmental degradation of the harbor. This abatement may very well occur when the last surviving crewmember dies.

Prof 01-13-08 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
The Hood sank in waters not nearly 45,000 feet deep (45,000 comes from a tiny crack that continues to run downwards inside the trench bottom; nobody is sure where it stops). We're talking the deepest point on Earth here, not a couple of miles (like 2 or 3). The Trench is over 9 miles down. At the bottom, the water column above exerts a pressure of 108.6 MPa, over one thousand times the standard atmospheric pressure at sea level.

The deepest point on Earth is thought to be Challenger Deep in the Marianas Trench, which is just short of 36,000 ft deep. That point is a good 500 miles from where the Indianapolis went down. The best information I can find says that the Indianapolis went down in water no more than 20,000 ft deep. That's certainly deeper than Titanic, Bismarck or Hood but it's roughly the same depth as some wreckage of the Kaga which was found recently.
Quote:

That's 8 tons PER SQUARE INCH, more than enough to cause a sinking battleship to implode, let alone destroy munitions inside.
Only unflooded, sealed areas would implode. Ships sink because they're full of water, so generally there aren't many areas left which could implode.
Quote:

The speed that the Indianapolis would have gained during her fall probably would be what would set off the munitions inside. Assuming it wasn't smashed to pieces upon hitting the bottom like a wooden dollhouse falling off a 50-story building, then it's highly unlikely that anything survived the explosions of bombs and shells.
I have no numbers to back this up, but I would think that a sinking ship reaches terminal velocity quite quickly. There are many examples of virtually intact wrecks which have fallen nearly as deep at the Indianapolis would be, so I don't imagine this would be a problem.

Edit: Another consideration regarding the leakage of oil from the Arizona is that, at present, the leak is relatively small and the oil dissipates without any problem. If the Navy attempted to remove the oil and it went wrong, there is the posibility that a large quantity of oil could be released in one go, which would be bad!

bookworm_020 01-13-08 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swifty
Quote:

Originally Posted by Type941
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly
Or are they just too lazy to do it? :-j

Yup, that's it. :shifty:

She just has not started leaking enough to pose any major danger to the environment.

The Navy MUDSU 1 along with NAVSE SUPSALV recently offloaded 2 million gallons of oil from the WWII tanker USS Mississinewa (AO 59), destroyed by a suicide torpedo.

A Power Point of the salvage can be downloaded here: http://www.supsalv.org/essm/ppt/MISS_Web_Summary.ppt

Quote:

As of 2007, 66 years after the explosion that destroyed Arizona, oil leaks from the hull still rise to the surface of the water. The USS Arizona continues to leak about a quart of oil per day into the harbor.[1] Survivors from the crew say that the oil will continue to leak until the last survivor dies. Many of the survivors have arranged for their ashes to be placed in the ship, among their fallen comrades, upon their death and cremation. The Navy, in conjunction with the National Park Service, has recently overseen a comprehensive computerized mapping of the hull, being careful to honor its role as a war grave. The Navy is considering non-intrusive means of abating the continued leakage of oil to avoid the further environmental degradation of the harbor. This abatement may very well occur when the last surviving crewmember dies.

They are planning to do a simmlar operation with the Royal Oak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Royal_Oak_%2808%29

Oberon 01-13-08 07:27 PM

http://www.wrecksite.eu/wrecksite.aspx

AntEater 01-13-08 07:43 PM

For the Japanese:
http://www.combinedfleet.com/atully08.htm
(combined fleet: Located and surveyed shipwrecks of the IJN).
Among those, there are some located and dived on by divers of USS Chanticleer only months after they had been sunk. Mostly for navigational markers, but also for Intel purposes as salvaging such items as documents and radar and coding equipment.
Diving on a recently sunk warship in tropical waters must have been one of the most nerve wracking experiences I can imagine.
The usual traps of wreckdiving plus unexploded ammo, oil, rotting corpses and sharks...
U boat wrecks can be found at uboat.net

Torplexed 01-13-08 08:34 PM

Somebody raised this thread from the deep. :p

Still haven't found the Musashi I see. Hopefully she's in better shape than her sister the Yamato.

Kapitan_Phillips 01-14-08 04:40 AM

What about the Gneisau (sp?)?

joea 01-14-08 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips
What about the Gneisau (sp?)?

Scrapped wasn't it? IIRC the RAF hit her with a bomb while she was unloading ammo, there was talk of re-arming her with 15 inch guns (6 instead of the 9 11 inchers) but it came to naught. I do believe some of her turrets were installed as coast fortresses in Denmark or Norway, someone will correct me.

AntEater 01-14-08 08:40 AM

Gneisenau was hit by the RAF in Kiel shortly after the Channel dash in 1942.
One of the luckiest hits of all times: the bomb detonated on the anti-bomb armour deck just beside the air vent of the propellant charge magazine for A turret. Hot splinters fell through the air vent and caused a detonation which lifted the A turret out of its bearings, destroyed a major part of the forecastle and killed 112 men.
While the whole forecastle was gutted she could still move under her own power and tranferred to Gotenhafen assisted by icebreaker "Stettin", which still exists as a museum ship.
That was to be part of a major reconstruction, in which the 15 cm secondary guns and the 10,5 cm flak were to be replaced by 12,8 cm dual purpose turrets, so the secondary artillery was landed as well.
Hitler was not content with the original 28 cm armament anyway (after insisting on it in the first place!) so the barbettes were constructed to take heavier calibers as well.
The forecastle was pretty much gutted.
The conversion scheme fell through after the Kriegsmarine shifted all priorities to U-Boats in 1943.
The old 28 cm turrets and secondary armament were installed in Norway, where one turret ("C", I think) and some 15 cm guns are still existing as museums.
Gneisenau was used as a Blockship in Gotenhafen in 1945, and was apparently torpedoed by both sides, last time by german S-Boats because a soviet artillery spotter had taken up residence in her main mast.
The Poles raised her in 1950 and scrapped her.

Scharnhorst was discovered in the Barents sea a few years ago, but is not in good shape.

seafarer 01-14-08 10:12 AM

Did you check wrecksite?

http://www.wrecksite.eu/wrecksite.aspx

also http://www.ukdiving.co.uk/wrecks/index.php

HMS Hood 03-27-08 03:43 PM

Ships
 
They raised Oklahoma from Pearl then scrapped her. Also don't go diving at Graf Spee it is covered in fishing nets and the waters muddy so you might die. NOT KIDDING!!:dead::dead::dead::dead::dead::dead::dead ::dead::dead::dead: Graf Zeppelin was raised by the Soviets and the Germans let them keep it for scrap.

bookworm_020 03-27-08 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bookworm_020
If you want to add to the not found list HMAS Sydney, She went missing off the West Australian coast after fighting KSK Kormoran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...d_HSK_Kormoran

I guess the good news is that she has been found, alnog with KSK Kormoran. They are about to get some photos of the wreck in the near future.

Quote:

Graf Zeppelin was raised by the Soviets and the Germans let them keep it for scrap.
Which they then used for bomb and torpedo test and then sunk it, as previous posts have stated.

bigboywooly 03-27-08 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMS Hood
They raised Oklahoma from Pearl then scrapped her. Also don't go diving at Graf Spee it is covered in fishing nets and the waters muddy so you might die. NOT KIDDING!!:dead::dead::dead::dead::dead::dead::dead ::dead::dead::dead: Graf Zeppelin was raised by the Soviets and the Germans let them keep it for scrap.

Not quite true
Under the Allied Tripartite Commission, a "Category C" ship (damaged or scuttled) should have been destroyed or sunk in deep water by August 15th 1946 Instead, the Soviets decided to repair the damaged ship and it was refloated in March 1946.

Last known pic in April 47 leaving Swinemünde

http://neverhost.net/grafzeppelinn8.jpg

Pictures of her find in 2006

http://www.hss.mw.mil.pl/index.php?akcja=galgraf#nogo

AG124 03-27-08 07:47 PM

USS Oklahoma
 
@ HMS Hood - BBW already addressed your point on the Graf Zeppelin, but I would like to take the opportunity to make a minor correction on your point about the USS Oklahoma - she was indeed raised and sold for scrap (or just the bare hull, actually) but she was never actually scrapped, as she foundered and sank off the coast of Hawaii while under tow back to the mainland in 1946.:know:


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