I also agree with this statement, Not that I may not give it a go. I would like to point out that AI is The next item on the devs to do list. I would also like to say that both run8 and steel beasts prope started as "niche" "multi player" primarily as well. Both have become awesome simulators in their genere for sp.
why I draw that parallel is just like WP, they are both small dev teams that have a certain vision for their product. but do listen to their respective communities. Will they please everyone all the time?, of coarse not.
@this point there is gr8 potential for WP as you have and devs that are listening to the community for input.

Not my cup of tea either, with just one
 

I agree with Sly's general points of view about the game. Wolfpack is not my cup of tea either. I'm not into multiplayer subsimming and I like to play my games when I want, not when others want to join. I, too, would have preferred an updated version of SH3, with a diversified full-war campaign, working AI subs, wolfpacks, bug-free and everything else we old subsimmers asked for.



I also agree that the subsim community has changed alot since the Silent Hunter era, when multiplayer was a big NO-NO here. Just remember the outcry when Ubisoft pushed its ill-fated multiplayer installment of SH.


BUT


I respect Wolfpack's designers' choice (even though it is not for me). It's their game, they gathered the money for it, so it's up to them to develop whatever game they want. If they don't give me the game I want, so be it. There's always other things to play, such as the upcoming UBOAT, due for release tomorrow, which I hope will become the game I want, in time.


If there's people enjoying Wolfpack, I wish them to have great fun, will never blame them or the devs for their choice and hope they can expand their community. I'm aware that multiplayer subsimming is a niche within a niche, with preciously few people enjoying it, and developing a game along this line is a big gamble they took. There hardly are people willing to pay for a sub game at all, but finding those interested by a multiplayer co-op subsim seems to me like nearly impossible, especially in the long run.



Bottom line, Sly, let them enjoy the game they like and - whenever you feel like bashing Wolfpack - repeat yourself that its devs are not bound to give you or me or anyone else what we want. It's their toy, they funded it with their money, let them have it as they like.


Good luck Wolfpack :Kaleun_Cheers:

Vent all ya wish SlyGuy.. would get boring if we all sang as a Choir.. it is "normal" behavior to vent in forums as is normal to bash a vent'er.. stuff.. it happens..



I can agree with some of Slyguy frustrations.. would be great to have a SH6.. but I am not going to call out a game that never said it was going to be SH6 and stomp my feet.


My personal Online Submarine game would be a few (Human)Destroyers escorting a convoy of freighters with a few (human)Wolfpack attacking us.. we all want something.. we NEVER get the whole deal.. anyways.. Wolfpack never said it was going to be my vision so I am good with that.



You havn't tried WolfPack Slyguy? personally, I think that is a mistake if you like Sub games.. but anyways.. I only have about 25 hours in Wolfpack so far and all of them have been SOLO.. I am grateful the DEV team is working on Single player additions to control the boats but I can almost get by already.. it really is needed except for the VERY niche team that can work together. I am not much on Sub Multiplayer, especially when you watch Twitch and see how it usually turns out in WolfPack. I don't play well with others when I want the immersion of the game but I don't want to "search out" good teams that I may not live up too either. I am not against making new friends..I just don't want to wait and work around other people schedules.



And wow, Wolfpack is immersive to "me".. LOVE the sounds... splash, although I would like a larger gramophone folder for my own use on music.. no problem..I just run another program and the destroyers don't hear it.. ;-) it's what I always done.. accept what we got for now and improvise. Will enjoy the PLANES, ship radio and Echo coming in the "near future" please note I expect "near future".. or I might stomp my feet too lol.. jus'sayin



I never tried this.. but I surely hope I can solo in Wolfpack if the internet goes down? having to connect to a server.. well, That would be very frustrating and make me stomp my feet here too.. I remember some old games that went offline and you couldn't play them after.. might been awhile, but it does happen.. hmm, maybe I should try it.. jus'sayin.


No Campaign? I do like a story, only reason I still buy titles like COD ( bad example?) but don't play the Multiplayer much.. Well, time compression to areas in SH Series really wasn't my thing to find the random freighter. I like the simple "MISSION Base" Wolfpack offers. I can pretend I time compressed to find the convoy.. it is all I did in SH series really.. of course to see an ocean get more "wild" at times and a coastline now and then sure would be nice.. "hint"...



Although SH5 was buggy.. to walk around a whole Submarine was amazing to "me" and I wish WolfPack would open the other compartments (or at least the toilet we all see clipping behind the Hydrophone.. its already there and assume the other compartments are too..for the most part)


I am just happy there are two fairly good starts to NEW Submarine games within a month apart from each other and I am getting BOTH.. half way there.



:Kaleun_Cheers:

Sold! I'll take two.

Interesting thread. I understand Sly's POV, just that he took the BdU order a little to heart:

maybe the devs will turn out to be merciful gods and in the hush hush fashion add in destroyers as playable models with all the bells and whistles that come with pvp ww2 naval combat


my god im getting all too excited:k_confused:

YEAR 2 Anniversary DLC for 34.99... whoops..there it is.. :Kaleun_Cheers:

Wolfpack is perfect for my friends and I. We are real into the flight sims (IL2, DCS, BMS, etc.) and this works perfectly! A lot of my friends have short attention spans, so to actually sit down and learn all the full realism aspects by themselves is a tall order. But to multicrew, learn with friends as you play is in my opinion the best part. It's certainly broadening the Subsim community with more casual players.

Now you may say that's a bad thing, but if it's generating more revenue and more interest, we're going to get more Uboat type games. I say there's nothing wrong with more simulator games, even if they arent quite everyone's preferred sim. For example, apparently there's an Early Access game called Re-entry, and its an Apollo/Mercury/Gemini simulator. I picked it up on sale and trying to learn it, but what would make it better is if it was multicrew so I can play with my friend who's an astronomy major. Supposedly it is supposed to get multiplayer soon too, so keep an eye on that one!

^ The History Guy did an episode on this story I watched not to long ago.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfr0nsh0Ghc

What an utter pillock. Christ man, you don't even know what JRPG is! :har:

Slyguy... wow what a nasty person you are. Seriously. I registered just so I could post this comment...

Welcome aboard!
 

I must firstly admit that I have not read all of this extensive thread, but it seems to me that some degree of multiplayer is most necessary, especially for the long-term health of the game.

I think it's necessary, however, to break down the multiplayer element into three areas (looking ahead slightly too):

multi-player within a U-boat
multi-player within up to 4 U-boats
multi-player within 1 or more escorts

Of these, in my estimation, and as a generalisation, the 1st and 3rd do, are, or are likely, to work well. The 2nd is a problem area, as all too often it just means that a minute before your torpedoes strike, someone else alerts the convoy and maybe an hour and half's effort on your part is wasted. Although the wolfpack attack is well documented, I have my doubts that it was so concentrated an attack that these near simultaneous attacks were common at all.

I think that there's no question that the multiplayer within a particular boat works well, especially when you get an experienced crew together, plus maybe one new-guy. Likewise, provided that the right measures are put in place for crewing escorts, such as the ability to transfer between escorts (with a cool-down period between such transfers), then this will be very good for gameplay for several reasons:

Firstly it will greatly improve the otherwise rather lacklustre AI performance of escorts, it'll greatly extend the periods when a particular U-boat is hunted, and also the periods under actual attack. Secondly it creates a very personal battle of wits between the U-boat commander and the escort captain and convoy-commander - and it'll feel personal too, with the intelligence behind and persistence of, a nerve-wracking DC attack being directed by an opposing player rather than the AI. Thirdly, it'll no longer be possible for a commander to be able to look at an escort and know that he's out of visual range at a particular range, or indeed that the escort he's looking at is AI manned or human manned. If the former, then the range/observation limits, as now, would apply, but he can't know that he's not been spotted....

In summation, some aspects of multi-player work well, other's less so. It's my estimation that multi-boat crewing should only be possible with a variable spawn-distance from the convoy and well out of visual range. YMMV. In other areas swapping AI for human multiplayer would greatly improve the game, again YMMV.

Look, frankly I'm just upset that this isn't Half Life 3. So is this Half Life 3 or what? Why did they make Wolfpack when they could've made Half Life 3 which I'd rather play?

Ok I kid... I would MUCH rather play Wolfpack than Half Life 3!

:up:

Guys,

I am a sub-fanatic and especially the U-Boat type VIIc. I love this game and where it is going. Also I notice some stutter in the development with minor updates on the radiotraffic and missing some, more challenging, missions for those who played the encounters endlessly, like I did.
Of course I have a list with tons of suggestions as a diehard subplayer from the eighties on. I wont complain, but a little bit more focus on developing more challenging missions to choose from (Scapa Flow???) would be a good thing to get back on course of keeping the subscribers and backers happy.

The single biggest change that would deliver more challenging missions is playable escorts, and a set of victory-conditions whereby both sides have an equal chance of winning. Playable escorts will result in much longer Asdic searches and DC attacks, and combine with a more nuanced damage-model on the U-boat, a much more varied game experience for the U-boat crews as they have to overcome all manner of damage problems.

Ideally tonnage sunk should be set against number of U-boats involved/time, so that the rate of tonnage sunk is the gauge of victory, rather than the total tonnage. Similarly, having U-boats sunk would materially affect the chance of a U-boat victory.

Playable escorts will allow the currently rather dumb AI to be much more cunning, whilst allowing the dumb AI to move un-manned escorts back to their original position in the convoy, once escort players crew a different boat. This will make the search aspect of the game more interesting for the escort players, but also introduce uncertainty into the minds of U-boat captains as to whether an escort they are observing is human or AI controlled, and therefore some additional uncertainty as to it's likely future courses and behaviour.