Uh oh... if Horsa also steps in, this will start to look like the good old times of SH2/DC :D

I have seen two kind of reviews about SOF and none of them I can agree with:

1.- The very proffesional ones, like the one done by Deamon. This does not serve well as yardstick because he is projecting to do a fantastic and extensively researched sim, thus anything else we know until now pales into insignificance

2.- The casual ones, where the player was a preted-to-be veteran simmer. They also do not serve well as they fail to understand most of what is behind WW1 submarine warfare (Which is as interesting or even more than WW2, way easier to understand and follow through for players because of its simplicity, and lacks all the problematic nazi rubbish), and they tend to compare with SH2/3/4, where graphics had an enormous weigth in terms of game experience.

Nope, SOF is a game with a huge potential waiting to be unlocked by talented modders, only it has not been correctly understood. Besides, I bet that such a small company is much more open to interaction with dedicated and enthusiasted community than UBI or any other large one will ever be, thus offering increased possibilities of tweaking "from inside" the guts of the game, even if no code is made publically available.

Let us keep the ball rolling.....and see what comes out of this :up:

:up: :ping:

cheers Horsa for the english scripts..nice one..will be looking thro them for info

i agree with HM:yep: :sunny:

folks haven't got this sim by the tail as yet..it comes in from left field..

i'll throw this into the arena to see if it bites:arrgh!:

here's the first 17 missions of the campaign (start of the war)

with a couple of minor changes and additions..

1/changed the stay in area objectives to simple reach objectives...

2/added dynamic radio messages and routed shipping

3/added very light air defense around the coast of england (after you get u35)

just these small changes open the campiagn up to be a much more open ended affair..

here's the link..

http://www.ebort2.co.uk/SOF/newcampaign.zip



just install it to the scripts folder

remember this is just scratching the surface stuff..we could really do with Floater here...as the main bulk of the really tricky missions entrys need to be scripted in what appears to Visual Basic code....and floater's a genius with that stuff. ..you should see what it takes to script a convoy with escorts...yikes..bit out of my reach there...:huh:

but this simple stuff i CAN script:up:

that scope visability issue..
 

here's a perfect ..if a little extreme example of how you can get within ramming range of a enemy vessel with the scope up (in fact here i'm dang close to breaching the surface!)....and the red recognition notes don't appear so you remain in stealth mode....raise the scope a bit more to get the red markers working (and to get the auto "TDC" lock) and of course he sees you....so in effect the submerged autoTDC is effectively useless at the sorts of ranges you need for a good hope of a shot...so the point the scope lock and fire concept is a non starter for this game....in effect there is NO USE-ABLE AUTO TARGETING LOL:up: and i speak as a lazy s#d who normaly uses auto tdc ..but in this game with it's huge switch in emphasis i am quite pleased that the auto targeting feature is so heath robinison and often has the oppsoite efefct to that required..ie you get seen making the lock there fore the lock is now useless lol ...

get a load of this screenshot to see what i mean..at no point in my approach to this ship did he spot me..there were brief moments were the red markers appeared but i corrected the depth and height of the scope to compensate and here i am...i torped the b##ger but it was a dud..LOL...

http://www.ebort2.co.uk/images/SOF_S.jpg

1) Playing the campaign, I've just been upgraded to a larger sub. I now have much longer range, a deck gun, and MG. I use the deck gun for those pesky merchants, saving my torpedoes for warships - all that to say, that, I now need a mid-mission save option, which is sorely missed. I see this as the only major design flaw.
2) Has anybody found any "official" boards - I haven't been able to find any yet...

Brad

Cool, it illustrates perfectly what you said :up:

If we could get to remove the text that gives away target identification, course and speed as well as the icons we would have a real hardcore torpedo shooting game :o The text is surely located in coordinates in some text file, while the icons are easily made transparent and voilà! :D

Sadly there is no chronometer in the game :shifty: for speed calculation, so you need to it all by hand with your wristwatch. Oh well....

As for Chock's speeds table, it is a great replacement, but for torpedo shooting what is needed is a defletion angle table, which is quite easy to do. I will post one here in some minutes, after consulting the game's torpedo speeds :up:

This could be it :hmm:

Although I did find ....
http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/sim/1914sh...ag=tabs;forums

The whole project seems quirky.... no patches ( or promises of) , no forums, no current news on its "official" site etc .....

Here you go:


http://aycu04.webshots.com/image/254...6237527_rs.jpg





Description:

The numbers in the first column (26/31/36) are for the Torpedo Speed you set.

The numbers in the first row (2 to 25) are for the enemy speed.

The match case is the number of degrees of the Deflection Angle or Gyro Angle.

How to use in game:

Let us say that you are willing to shoot a 31 Knots torpedo to a 8 knots target. First of all, you get into a 90º course towards him, i.e. the target and you have perpendicular courses. Looking at the table, this gives us a deflection angle of exactly 15 degrees.

Put your scope dead centered on your bow. (0º bearing)

Set the Torpedo Gyro to 15 degrees in the opposite direction the target comes from (Left if the target is right of your bow and vice-versa)

When the target crosses your bow (0º bearing for you, the direction to which you trained your scope), shoot the torpedo. That's all. :D

Historic notes:

In real life the procedure was in fact the opposite, i.e. you left a 0º Gyro Angle (Torpedo shoots straigth and does not turn) and the scope was trained 15º from the bow in the direction of the target. Since we don't have a precise scope bearing marker, unfortunately we must resort to turning the torpedo instead, by means of the available Gyro Angle :damn:

However it works the same EXCEPT that with the historical procedure the torpedo hits the target at exactly 90º AOB, thus minimizing the chances of duds, whereas using this forced method we will hit with an acute angle, always more prone to duds. :shifty:

:up: now even I can get my head round that!!
Cheers HM!

this any good?

http://www.ebort2.co.uk/SOF/zwischenmeldung1.jpg

kept it to the slower speed as my eyes were going on me

looking for ward to trying the method out later on to night:up:

Very nice! Pic saved for future use in-game. :up:

Hopefully you like the method and find time to do a larger table...there's still space to be used.

When I find out exactly how many degrees does the scope view covers and create a reticle for that, the smaller angles (Say up to 10 deg) will probably be useable enough with just the scope reticle, allowing to shoot straigth from the bow.

Cheers

:up: cheers HM
what i'm hoping is that after a while using this method (thanks again!)
i will get a feel for the angles needed for other speeds as well i guess once you start to think in these terms you begin to be able to work from memory..and fill in the gaps....will maybe do a more complete version as well tho..or could just use your full graphic and paste that onto a similar version..

i have trawled thru all the missions in the game and noted the speeds the auto shipping uses and these are the ones it tends to use the most (destroyers tend to hare along at 30 knts) every thing else more less sticks to these speeds..not that that's hard coded or anything you can set the speeds of any ship any way you want via the mission entrys..

this is how the game plots routes for the ships

ApplyStateEngine $0,"Traderoute#Berberis,9#-11.313,46.323#-2.654,47.137#8"

you have the TRADEROUTE

which is the AI behaviuor mapped out in the traderoute section of the stateengine templates.txt

berberis is the type of ship the 9 after it is just the ships number so the mission can recognise it for any special instruction...such kill unit 9 or similar..and the radio messages function like this

AddPositionTracker $9,$900,"Von Admiralität.\\To .\U-Boote.\Hostile contact 9.\\Position: %s\Course: %d\\Instructions,\if possible.\Attack.\if current orders\allow!"

AddPositionTracker $9 <<---unit 9

the next stuff is the lat long co-ordinates for the route which are as "real world" as any other sim...another thing to take note of when evaluating the attention to detail in the sim..for example you can use any route lat longs from SH2 and use them in SOF and they are exactly the same..:up:

Floaters Kriegstanz developer is great for plotting new routes ..you just click on kreig Dev map and hit F4 and it gives you the lat long copy and paste them into the SOF route and your good to go...

#-11.313,46.323#-2.654,47.137#8" <<--- speed 8 knots

lastly to get right round back to the speed thing..tacked on the end of the route entry is the ships speed

i like this game...it's a hard core sim that manages the ultimate simulation "blasphemy" of not taking itself too seriuosly!!! and just for once ..there are no interminable three hour depth charge attacks.thank cornflakes for that!!!

dot dot dash dash dot dot ..dash dot dot...dash..
 

LOL:yep:
happy to report manual targeting a complete success...

here are some possibly usefull weather missions file entrys
#Weather "night1"
Weather "sun"
StartTime 6.0,0.0
StartDate 1914,9,2
ChangeGeoPivot 3,52
SetEnvParameters 0,1,1
#SetWaterScales 5,5,1
NightLight $0
AmbientLight 0.4, 0.4, 0.4
DiffuseLight 0.8, 0.8, 0.8
LightDirection 1,1,1


SetEnvParameters 0,1,1
#SetWaterScales 5,5,1
NightLight $0
AmbientLight 0.4, 0.4, 0.4
DiffuseLight 0.8, 0.8, 0.8 LightDirection 1,1,1

these may hold a key to elaborating on the weather shown in each mission...
#Weather "night1"
Weather "sun"
SetEnvParameters 0,1,1
#SetWaterScales 5,5,1
NightLight $0
AmbientLight 0.4, 0.4, 0.4
DiffuseLight 0.8, 0.8, 0.8
LightDirection 1,1,1

certainly worth experimenting with....as although i was intialy excited by the in game weather effects with what i assumed were weather changes during missions..
i am dissapointed to find that there doesn't appear to be genuinely changing weather (thus far) .. changing weather, especaily along the lines of the SH2 moving plot-able weather front method is one of my favourite topics ..
and i have yet to see any sim any where implement changing weather more genuinely than SH2!!!

so will have to look into the SOF weather trying to maximise the effects being able to control the ambient diffuse etc light for each individual missions is a start
(rather than it just using the overal blanket weather type taken directly from the weather.txt and referenced by the weather "night1" or "sun" etc..
i wonder if the game allows for different weather at night than during the day...the TWO referenced weather types might hint at that
or it may be that the # comments out the one or the other..
but you have the
nightlight and
SetEnvParameters 0,1,1
these may be powerful tools to play with as may be the

#SetWaterScales 5,5,1height/length/width of the waves...

these have a dramatic effect on your scope visabilty etc and ease or not of submerged attacks as well as providing different sea-state conditons from a sufaced eye candy point of view..
the nightlight might allow for differing degrees of brightness at night allowing each weather type to be customised to suit...

EDIT---
yikes..that needed re-arranging a little!

coming to the
StateEngineTemplates.txt

anything other than the TRADEROUTES stuff containing within there is AIRBASE SPAWNED..
or rather triggered by the player entering the area...bit dissapointing that...


BUT on the positive side it at least has some very complex and flixible behaviuor available to use..here's an example

# three point escape
#
# #1=SimOb[,ref]
# #2,#3,#4 = Points of movement (l,b)
# #5=Fluchtziel (l,b), #6=Speed
#
18,threepointescape
s:6
c:0,1,PlayerNear:g#2
a:1,CreateSimObject:#1
a:1,GoTo:g#2,0,#6
a:2,GoTo:g#3,0,#6
a:3,GoTo:g#4,0,#6
a:4,GoTo:g#5,0,0
a:4,FireAtWill:
a:5,StopAndFire:
c:1,2,LastDestinationReached:1500
c:2,3,LastDestinationReached:1500
c:3,1,LastDestinationReached:1500
c:1,4,EnemyVisible:5000
c:2,4,EnemyVisible:5000
c:3,4,EnemyVisible:5000
c:4,5,LastDestinationReached:1500
c:5,5,EnemyVisible:5000
c:5,1,TimeExpired:4,720


obviuosly the player near trigger at the top of the list of instructions is well --player near-- DO THIS---

first it selects the ship type..with
create simobject

then it tells the ship to go to lat long coordinates 1 then 2 then 3 which you can edit in the mission file itself....

here's an example of the twopoint escape mission entrys (couldn't find a thre point one used so this will do)
name of template/shiptype /# lat long range trigger area/timer/ LatLong go to location /and at the end speed of ship

TwoPointEscape#Scharnhorst#7.547,54.642,30000000,7 20#0.596,54.628#3.0,52.2#12"

the three point escape has another lat long so the ship would proceed along a course AFAIK..which means you could set ships up to ambush the player by drawing him onto a waiting cruiser or destroyer or simply have that ship race at max speed to the nearest friendly port...you know just interesting stuff to experiment with.....looking at the size of the trigger area for the above example it pretty much covers everywhere....30000000 is a huge area...so this ship spawn isn't a localised event..wonder what exactly the game means by Player near??



hopefully this is a fourpoint (without the escape option) convoy triggered by the player entering the area of the first waypoint range 30000000
methinks there might be a delay on this spawning?? at that range??


#Mission
ApplyStateEngine $0,"fourpoint#Dachia,1#1.349,53.736,300000000#4.00 9,54.672#4.080,56.482#0.874,55.213#18"
ApplyStateEngine $1,"fourpoint#Dachia,2#1.355,53.736,300000000#4.00 9,54.672#4.080,56.482#0.874,55.213#18"
ApplyStateEngine $1,"fourpoint#zerst2#1.360,53.736,300000000#4.009, 54.672#4.080,56.482#0.874,55.213#18"
ApplyStateEngine $1,"fourpoint#zerst2#1.365,53.736,300000000#4.009, 54.672#4.080,56.482#0.874,55.213#18"

and that dynamic contact report entry for the convoy

AddPositionTracker $1,$168,"From Admiralty:\\To all submarines\in range.\Hostile contact reported.\\Position: %s\Movement direction: %d\You are allowed\to seek and destroy\the contact.\Do not contravene your orders!"

all of which is a whole world simpler than the way the mission generator constructs a convoy..which is a relief


if your following what i'm saying here you can see that you can do something very much like and at LEAST as good as the dynamic campaign in SH3 and 4....

one/ you strip out most of the randomly spawned shipping..(editing the ship density txts to achive this)
two/ you edit into all the missions files three or four convoys or similar with the dynamic contact reports
three/ you now have a dynamic campaign engine..

well we all know it isn't DYNAMIC but then neither is SH3/4's..what we mean here is random..or rather REPLAYABLE

you then just leave port head to your patrol zone
the dynamic contact reports will report on shipping...

what you do as the player is then entirely up to you....

bingo..instant "dynamic" campaign engine..

i mean folks can whine and say "it isn't this" or "it isn't that" or "what about this" or "what about that" ad bleedin infinitum

but at the end of it all...it would be a "dynamic" campaign

are you sure you guys are REALLY interested in all this??:hmm:

lol :hmm: ok never mind..i'm interested anyhuw...:ping:

here's an important update to both the periscope visability issue AND the sea state and animation settings...as in the end they are in fact both the same thing...

open your weather.txt (root folder)

and add the water state settings to each weather type

thusly

mgsun
{
fogenable = 0
texture = VolumeSky1.dds
rainsize = 0
rainfreq = 0
DayLightTexture = none
WaterHScale = 0.6
WaterTScale = 0.8
WaterSScale = 3

there is in fact a stock example to follow at the bottom of the stock weather.txt..

i HAD imagnied the settings refered to

HEIGHT
X width
Y length

or some such ..

but what they actualy refer to is this..

HEIGHT
SPEED
SCALE

so editing the

waterH gives you taller or shallower waves

waterT edits the speed at which the wave animations cycle thru their routine

waterS edits the over all X-Y scale of the waves....right from sharks teeth perculiar eruptions from the surface --all the way out to almost imperceptible undulations in the ocean surafce....


now back to the SCOPE visability issue.....creating large peaks and troughs in the wave pattern by taking the scale of the waves out to around 3

ie

WaterSScale = 3

and slowing the animation down to around

WaterTScale = 0.8

gives you a much greater "no-mans land" betweeen the scope being up and spotted...and it being down but you cannot see anything...
as the peaks and troughs obviously (think about it) change the height of the water surface in relation to your depth and scope height constantly....

there fore allowing you to see the ships without them seeing you....it's a very dynamic and ...realistic effect....which never plays out the same way twice......

it's im sure a stock effect (it would have to be really wouldn't it?:hmm: )

but because the stock waves are closly packed to gether there just isn't room for anything like a realsiticly scaled peak and trough to develop
hence the visability issue....
you can download the edited weather.txt from my site...tho be aware it is a beta and does have the occasional animation "jump"
which i will hopefully resolve at some point in the future....either way the sea animation is 100% improved (IMO) and you have a 100% improvement in BOTH gameplay AND realism...

anyhuw the info is here....
you should be able to cook up a wave animation set up that suits your style of gameplay realism and eye candy needs..in less time than it took me to type this dang post !!

he he :) I'm also interested in SOF, but you have already picked up speed and it is difficult following you, specially because I'm currently busy with another minor project and can't dedicate much time to SOF.

Anyway, weather improvements are most wellcomed but not my #1 priority while playing. That's good however, because if several people dedicate efforts to various (instead of only one) areas of the game, it will probably improve as a whole much more :up: I will concentrate in the shooting and fighting experience for now, and if I have time to dig in a bit more, I will look into the campaign:hmm:

One thing about radio messages....in WW1 there were almost never contact reports about merchants/convoys AFAIK. It was much more a matter of go out and see what you find...use your instinct :ping: Commanders were so free in their hunting that they switched areas frequently and sometimes in the Mediterranean they even entered and exited the Gibraltar Straits regularly :yep: go figure....

Cheers

P.S. Glad the manual shooting became easier now :up:

yes i have to admit that once i get going i like to plow ahead at a fair old rate...if at all possible..and there is a cascade effect in this way of modding..one adjustment here has an unpredicted and surprising effect there ..so it leads you off on several posibilites at once...like the branchs of a tree..


the persicope visability issue is a prime example...it is a weather and general visual modification..that DIRECTLY AFFECTS THE MILITARY FUNCTIONING OF THE SIM ie the SHOOTING AND FIGHTING experience of the sim.....this is in fact WHY i find modding a decent sim so interesting....everything, if it is well designed to start of with..is interconnected.....don't get tunnel vision...HM

go back and examine that screen shot of me within ramming range of that ship with the scope up.....you may have noticed i work on everything at once ....because there's isn't any other way to do it