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-   -   T34 vs Tiger- Kursk 1943 coming soon! (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=158301)

Sledgehammer427 12-08-2009 03:37 AM

Zee, I have found a few more books you might be interested in. My stepfather, another german armor enthusiast, dug up some eBooks on Kursk.

I have:
-Images of Kursk - July 1943
-Ww2 - 4Th Panzer Division Kursk 1943 - Militaria Armor 097
-Soviet Defensive Tactics Ww2
-Soviet Order Of Battle - Volume I - The Deadly Beginning - Soviet Tank, Mech, Mot Divisions and Brigades of 1940 to 1942 (Ocr)
-Soviet Order Of Battle Vol.II - School Of Battle - Soviet Tank Corps and Tank Brigades January 1942 to 1945 (Ocr)

AS well as a (U.S. Army) report on Nazi ordnance from the smallest shell to the largest. I just browsed but it seems to be an interesting bit to add to the collection. I even have a book on squad and platoon-level infantry tactics if that would be of any use. I can lock these up into a .rar and shoot them over if you would like.

Hitman 12-08-2009 03:51 AM

Quote:

the Playable tanks are not coming for a while (months). The AI tanks in production first then the playable. But both tanks productions are planned with crew.
I think that most of us would be happy with a "modular" approach, i.e. release first a major bug/fix and improvements pack for the existing stuff, then release progressively more stuff in new packs, adding new player controllable units if you wish.

I would happily pay for the different upgrade packs if they follow this simple guidelines:

-A first major upgrade pack as base for all future add-ons

-Strict bug fixes and code improvements released for free separately from new units&missions. This should be considered exclusively as the normal support to the user.

-Per pay addition of maps, AI units, player units, missions, campaigns in thematic expansion packs.

-The upgrade packs should be done in a manner -if possible- that the user does not need one to enable other previous packs to play the stock game+1st upgrade release. For example, one pack adds a bunch of AI units, but the player control of them with specific new interiors is a separated pack. Or a new pack adds a set of AI units and comes with revised existing missions that now add them (F.e. new artillery support, etc.). This would also give a nice variation to the existing scripted missions, because playing them with the new units added would be different.

In all, this approach would allow the user to "customize" his game expansion to a certain extent and better manage the money he is willing to spend :up:

RICH12ACE 12-08-2009 09:02 AM

hi zee were are you geting the info for the playable tanks interiors from? [when you get to do them] also i dont like the crew in the tanks i think it is better with out them anybody else think this.

ZeeWolf 12-08-2009 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICH12ACE (Post 1215709)
hi zee were are you geting the info for the playable tanks interiors from? [when you get to do them] also i dont like the crew in the tanks i think it is better with out them anybody else think this.

Please review the existing posts for your answer. :yep:

ZeeWolf

ZeeWolf 12-08-2009 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorMagee (Post 1215523)
It's been a while, and I don't think I still have the notes on file. One thing was that it was supposed to represent Operation Bagration but they didn't even have any Panthers. There was some effort to supply them with 3D models of battlefield paraphernalia to make the environment a bit less sterile, but those never got adopted.

Another was the lack of a usable scenario editor, and an easy way to add user missions. We knew a fully functional Multi-Player mode was key to the games longevity, but of course that was a partial birth abortion upon release.

We argued endlessly for the ability to control the other tanks in your platoon, and to have more dynamic AI rather than the tightly scripted closed end scenarios. We looked for a way to call in artillery support, but were told that Soviet tank crews never did that.

Then there was an endless list of inaccuracies in the models, and game physics that they though made it more playable, but just made it a joke to the real simmers who might have kept it alive long enough for a revenue generating sequel.

In short, I think we were looking for the depth of simulation, and functionality of Panzer Elite X, but with better graphics. Well, we got the graphics, but that was about it...

Thanks, I think we all would like a Tank sim that would take the term "simulation" more seriously and please believe me that's what is a primary goal for this sim.

TvT uber alles,

ZeeWolf

ZeeWolf 12-08-2009 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman (Post 1215614)
I think that most of us would be happy with a "modular" approach, i.e. release first a major bug/fix and improvements pack for the existing stuff, then release progressively more stuff in new packs, adding new player controllable units if you wish.

I would happily pay for the different upgrade packs if they follow this simple guidelines:

-A first major upgrade pack as base for all future add-ons

-Strict bug fixes and code improvements released for free separately from new units&missions. This should be considered exclusively as the normal support to the user.

-Per pay addition of maps, AI units, player units, missions, campaigns in thematic expansion packs.

-The upgrade packs should be done in a manner -if possible- that the user does not need one to enable other previous packs to play the stock game+1st upgrade release. For example, one pack adds a bunch of AI units, but the player control of them with specific new interiors is a separated pack. Or a new pack adds a set of AI units and comes with revised existing missions that now add them (F.e. new artillery support, etc.). This would also give a nice variation to the existing scripted missions, because playing them with the new units added would be different.

In all, this approach would allow the user to "customize" his game expansion to a certain extent and better manage the money he is willing to spend :up:

Thanks Hitman,:know:
These are excellent guidelines, I will adopt them as a general policy starting immediately. The simple lay out and concise manner is very appreciated and would be welcomed to anyone as busy as I am. :salute:
I will reference you post henceforth,
ZeeWolf

ZeeWolf 12-08-2009 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427 (Post 1215612)
Zee, I have found a few more books you might be interested in. My stepfather, another german armor enthusiast, dug up some eBooks on Kursk.

I have:
-Images of Kursk - July 1943
-Ww2 - 4Th Panzer Division Kursk 1943 - Militaria Armor 097
-Soviet Defensive Tactics Ww2
-Soviet Order Of Battle - Volume I - The Deadly Beginning - Soviet Tank, Mech, Mot Divisions and Brigades of 1940 to 1942 (Ocr)
-Soviet Order Of Battle Vol.II - School Of Battle - Soviet Tank Corps and Tank Brigades January 1942 to 1945 (Ocr)

AS well as a (U.S. Army) report on Nazi ordnance from the smallest shell to the largest. I just browsed but it seems to be an interesting bit to add to the collection. I even have a book on squad and platoon-level infantry tactics if that would be of any use. I can lock these up into a .rar and shoot them over if you would like.

Only have time to read picture books. :)

Thanks Kamerad,
ZeeWolf

Freiwillige 12-08-2009 03:10 PM

I want the crew interior crew. And this is really going well!:salute:

Alles fur TvT!

ZeeWolf 12-08-2009 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorMagee (Post 1215523)
It's been a while, and I don't think I still have the notes on file. One thing was that it was supposed to represent Operation Bagration but they didn't even have any Panthers. There was some effort to supply them with 3D models of battlefield paraphernalia to make the environment a bit less sterile, but those never got adopted.

Another was the lack of a usable scenario editor, and an easy way to add user missions. We knew a fully functional Multi-Player mode was key to the games longevity, but of course that was a partial birth abortion upon release.

We argued endlessly for the ability to control the other tanks in your platoon, and to have more dynamic AI rather than the tightly scripted closed end scenarios. We looked for a way to call in artillery support, but were told that Soviet tank crews never did that.

Then there was an endless list of inaccuracies in the models, and game physics that they though made it more playable, but just made it a joke to the real simmers who might have kept it alive long enough for a revenue generating sequel.

In short, I think we were looking for the depth of simulation, and functionality of Panzer Elite X, but with better graphics. Well, we got the graphics, but that was about it...


Thanks, I have allot of these on the proverbial drawing board already :up:

ZeeWolf

ZeeWolf 12-08-2009 11:48 PM

Su-122 1942
 
Here's another Red Army Unit that was available and fighting in 1943 :yep:
and soon to be in testing.

ZeeWolf

SU122 at the factory
http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k...eenShot150.jpg

frinik 12-09-2009 04:56 AM

Kursk Mod
 
Wow Zee Wolfe! Congratulations for the outstanding work! Considering that you were alone with God( it must have been Ares/Mars the God of battle who was by your side) doing all the modding and resurrecting single-handedly a game that was left for dead is nothing short of a miracle!

I have spread the Good Word on other fora( Panzer Elite, the French-speaking forum of simulations and the Steel Fury one) and I seem to have generated interest.Tank SIM fans are excited and more than willing to reward you financially( that includes me) and otherwise for your efforts.

Before I ask you a few questions which have been fielded to me, I have a few wishes or rather hopes of my own about your upcoming New Reborn T vs T:

1) Game immersion(i.e battlefield atmosphere) one the many drawbacks of the old T vs T was the lack of of battlefield immersion( you felt that you were alone fighting in your tank ) compared to a SIM graphically a step behind like Steel Fury but which offered you that authentic feeling tha you were in war( rattling of machine guns, infantrymen shouting, explosions, shells crashing, artillery booming etc. Can we expect that this problem has been addressed in your game?

2) Variety of terrain/landscapes; while T vs T is graphically very attractive the terrain tends to be monotonous and repetitive.Just compare it to Panzer Elite with its variety of conditions, Winter in the Soviet Union, Desert fighting in Tunisia, the rugged Italian landscapes and villages, the Normandy bocage and hills etc and even Steel Fury gives you variety of Ukrainian landscapes which give flavour to the game.Can we expect a bit more variety with the new T vs T?

3)Special effects(ballistic and otherwise); again compared to Panzer Elite with its 10 years of improvement on all aspects and Steel Fury with its terrific graphic and realistic ballistics can we expect a similar improvement in your game?

Lastly, I just want to ask a few more practical questions which address the fears or concerns of interested fans.

The legal aspect.The defunct Lighthouse which had the exclusive rights to the English release of T vs T probably passed the rights to creditors etc. While I expect that the creditors would be delighted that the game is reborn and that your Kursk mod would actually result in a resurging interest in the game and make people buy it, nevertheless are you reasonably assured that they would not try to stop you from releasing your project or force you to stop the release and all subsequent mods, addons and patches that you have in mind?

Also for fans who have versions of T vs T in languages other than English;i.e. German, French or Russian are they going to be able to install your sequel/mod onto thewir version of the game?

My last question would be how do you expect to release the game? Online?How would people pay you?Will you offer technical support with installation and a user manual?

Best wishes for your exciting plan!And kudos!

Frinik

ZeeWolf 12-09-2009 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frinik (Post 1216281)
Wow Zee Wolfe! Congratulations for the outstanding work! Considering that you were alone with God( it must have been Ares/Mars the God of battle who was by your side) doing all the modding and resurrecting single-handedly a game that was left for dead is nothing short of a miracle!

I have spread the Good Word on other fora( Panzer Elite, the French-speaking forum of simulations and the Steel Fury one) and I seem to have generated interest.Tank SIM fans are excited and more than willing to reward you financially( that includes me) and otherwise for your efforts.

Before I ask you a few questions which have been fielded to me, I have a few wishes or rather hopes of my own about your upcoming New Reborn T vs T:

1) Game immersion(i.e battlefield atmosphere) one the many drawbacks of the old T vs T was the lack of of battlefield immersion( you felt that you were alone fighting in your tank ) compared to a SIM graphically a step behind like Steel Fury but which offered you that authentic feeling tha you were in war( rattling of machine guns, infantrymen shouting, explosions, shells crashing, artillery booming etc. Can we expect that this problem has been addressed in your game?

2) Variety of terrain/landscapes; while T vs T is graphically very attractive the terrain tends to be monotonous and repetitive.Just compare it to Panzer Elite with its variety of conditions, Winter in the Soviet Union, Desert fighting in Tunisia, the rugged Italian landscapes and villages, the Normandy bocage and hills etc and even Steel Fury gives you variety of Ukrainian landscapes which give flavour to the game.Can we expect a bit more variety with the new T vs T?

3)Special effects(ballistic and otherwise); again compared to Panzer Elite with its 10 years of improvement on all aspects and Steel Fury with its terrific graphic and realistic ballistics can we expect a similar improvement in your game?

Lastly, I just want to ask a few more practical questions which address the fears or concerns of interested fans.

The legal aspect.The defunct Lighthouse which had the exclusive rights to the English release of T vs T probably passed the rights to creditors etc. While I expect that the creditors would be delighted that the game is reborn and that your Kursk mod would actually result in a resurging interest in the game and make people buy it, nevertheless are you reasonably assured that they would not try to stop you from releasing your project or force you to stop the release and all subsequent mods, addons and patches that you have in mind?

Also for fans who have versions of T vs T in languages other than English;i.e. German, French or Russian are they going to be able to install your sequel/mod onto thewir version of the game?

My last question would be how do you expect to release the game? Online?How would people pay you?Will you offer technical support with installation and a user manual?

Best wishes for your exciting plan!And kudos!

Frinik


Thank you very much Frinik for you kind words and very practical
questions. Yes, I too believe miracles are a found in realty, but
there is only one god of miracles who conquered death, hell and the grave. :yep:

I will paste your questions below one by one with my response to questions below each of them.

1) Game immersion(i.e battlefield atmosphere) one the many drawbacks of the old T vs T was the lack of of battlefield immersion( you felt that you were alone fighting in your tank ) compared to a SIM graphically a step behind like Steel Fury but which offered you that authentic feeling tha you were in war( rattling of machine guns, infantrymen shouting, explosions, shells crashing, artillery booming etc. Can we expect that this problem has been addressed in your game?

I am not as of yet fully focused on the sound aspect. All though I
will be, it must be said that sound immersion is an absolute necessity to any simulation. My wish list (in part) is to hand that to real professionals. But I have to tell you I have made some major changes in the sound files them selves that aid their fast execution. And added new and unique sounds to the Artillery, field guns and rocket as well as tweaked explosions effects more to my liking. More is needed but I have replaced the Tiger's engine sounds
that are pleasant to the ear and the immersion factor shot up dramatically for me.

2) Variety of terrain/landscapes; while T vs T is graphically very attractive the terrain tends to be monotonous and repetitive.Just compare it to Panzer Elite with its variety of conditions, Winter in the Soviet Union, Desert fighting in Tunisia, the rugged Italian landscapes and villages, the Normandy bocage and hills etc and even Steel Fury gives you variety of Ukrainian landscapes which give flavour to the game.Can we expect a bit more variety with the new T vs T?

There is no stopping me on the terrain/landscape issue, I will go all out for the changes needed here (fall, winter a must, etc. etc..). Most time spent since TvT's release has been in figuring out HOW to do something in TvT, now as of around July the next phase transition began as - WHAT to do in TvT. The creation of new tertian maps is very labor/time intensive. Putting to use the vast landscape data in free D.E.M.(Digital Elevation Modules) files was a goal from the start, where success has prevailed.

3)Special effects(ballistic and otherwise); again compared to Panzer Elite with its 10 years of improvement on all aspects and Steel Fury with its terrific graphic and realistic ballistics can we expect a similar improvement in your game?

In my work? Yes.

Lastly, I just want to ask a few more practical questions which address the fears or concerns of interested fans.

The legal aspect.The defunct Lighthouse which had the exclusive rights to the English release of T vs T probably passed the rights to creditors etc. While I expect that the creditors would be delighted that the game is reborn and that your Kursk mod would actually result in a resurging interest in the game and make people buy it, nevertheless are you reasonably assured that they would not try to stop you from releasing your project or force you to stop the release and all subsequent mods, addons and patches that you have in mind?

Also for fans who have versions of T vs T in languages other than English;i.e. German, French or Russian are they going to be able to install your sequel/mod onto thewir version of the game?

As for the legal aspect, All copyrights will be adhered to. As for speculating what others will or will not do - I do not know. As for "reasonably assured" yes I am.
As for Fans who are non English speaking, please be patient.

Sincerely,

ZeeWolf

growbag 12-09-2009 02:34 PM

It would be great if you could also stop the AI units from being able to see through thick forests too! They seem to have x-ray vision! :nope:

ZeeWolf 12-09-2009 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by growbag (Post 1216551)
It would be great if you could also stop the AI units from being able to see through thick forests too! They seem to have x-ray vision! :nope:

I hate that too growbag. If that happens again change seats to commander
and hit the 'g' key then (still in the Command seat) hit the F5 key and as you
look where you think the enemy is press the fire main weapon key. This will
alert the auto-gunner and he'll dust'em for you.:up:

ZeeWolf

frinik 12-09-2009 11:31 PM

Last question
 
Thank you very much for answering my quesiton so quickly Zee Wolfe. What about the last one?
My last question would be how do you expect to release the game? Online?How would people pay you?Will you offer technical support with installation and a user manual?

I will relay your answers to other fora where your project has generated a lot of excitement. And btw everybody was of the opinion that your honest labour deserves a honest reward!

You mentioned releasing yoru sequel before Xmas.Are you still optimistic that it can be done?

Cheers!

Frinik


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