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LcSummers 05-03-2010 01:47 PM

Hi ZW,

Quote:I am looking at the
AMD Phenom II X4 965 Quad Core 3.4 Ghz :O:
with 64bit Win7 and 4gigs Ram




ZW this is what i have, these are my pc specs:

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Quad Core 3.4 Ghz
GTX 295
4GB Ram
Win 7 32 Bit

LC


PS: and it runs only with 1.2-3.4 fps

NO ZW, CPU speed doesnt help here because TvT is written for single cpu. From the beginnig i had AMD Phenom II X4 965 Quad Core 3.4 Ghz and made my beta tests with it


ZeeWolf 05-03-2010 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LcSummers (Post 1381172)
Hi ZW,

Quote:I am looking at the
AMD Phenom II X4 965 Quad Core 3.4 Ghz :O:
with 64bit Win7 and 4gigs Ram




ZW this is what i have, these are my pc specs:

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Quad Core 3.4 Ghz
GTX 295
4GB Ram
Win 7 32 Bit

LC


PS: and it runs only with 1.2-3.4 fps

NO ZW, CPU speed doesnt help here because TvT is written for single cpu. From the beginnig i had AMD Phenom II X4 965 Quad Core 3.4 Ghz and made my beta tests with it


Oh s***! :oops:

Well I had hope that AMD would help. But the certainty of the ability to
use only a single CPU - am not sure on that yet. With Windows 2000 pro
there was a boost with prioaff.exe . But there is something that I can say
for certain and that is that 25% of the drag is the collision code. I will
have to really examine this area for a solution.
Meanwhile my efforts will be re-focused on missions and battle scenarios
that will run well on the majority of PCs. However make no mistake about it
my work will continue to fulfill my vision for this Sim.

Thanks LC

ZW

LcSummers 05-03-2010 03:27 PM

Hi Morty

Hi Lc
I think what you need is a 'Gulyasleves' cooled CPU but strain out all the particles first! :har:


First of all yes with wine second its very hot. We have a kind of hot "chili" so i´ ll give you some of it and not only you but your tank and Notebook are getting very hot:D

LC

LcSummers 05-03-2010 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf (Post 1381204)
Oh s***! :oops:

Well I had hope that AMD would help. But the certainty of the ability to
use only a single CPU - am not sure on that yet. With Windows 2000 pro
there was a boost with prioaff.exe . But there is something that I can say
for certain and that is that 25% of the drag is the collision code. I will
have to really examine this area for a solution.
Meanwhile my efforts will be re-focused on missions and battle scenarios
that will run well on the majority of PCs. However make no mistake about it
my work will continue to fulfill my vision for this Sim.

Thanks LC

ZW


Never mind ZW but i wish you luck (for us too). Hopefully you can solve the collision drag but i am very confident that your new missions will be a hell of fight.

Over and out

LC :salute:

frinik 05-04-2010 02:09 AM

New Maps?
 
Zee I think CPU alone is not the solution; a very strong GPU is required( minimum 1 gig dedicated and 1.5 to 1.8 even better) and available RAM is also important as it plays a role in how fast a pc works .Minimum 4 to 8 or more.Your huge maps may be part of the reason.I play the original TvsT with minimum 18 to 20 but with your missions 1 and 6 they drop to 8 to 14 and even lower with Kursk light mission 1 (4.5 to 5.8).It;s got to do with coding and the size of your maps.You may have to scale them down may be by half and see what happens.:hmmm:

JHS has a good processor but his GC is only 512 mg (ATI X1800)if I am correct this explains why his fps are so low

Just a thought....:salute:

morttheslayer 05-04-2010 10:00 AM

Hardware Its a best guess for this
 
Frinic & Zee, most of us have fairly strong specs - not top of the pops but no slouches either.

I wholeheartedly agree with Frinic.
I came to the conclusion (monitoring my CPU and GPU) that it's a combination of Graphics and CPU mainly. My graphics are run at 1024x768 not the screen native Resolution but the NVid 9800GTX+ seems to give best results at this with TvsT. There are some strange anomolies in performance like FPS goes up a lot when using F5 Gunners or Commanders views until you traverse; and in some areas it's OK; and in others the screen tears slightly, and sometimes the screen will freeze (slightly/momentarily) and FPS drop dramatically, and you can be stationary when this happens!

PC Specs CPU Core 2 Duo E8500 (2x3.16GHz) 1333 M/Board Asus P5QC Skt775
Graphics Ge Force 9800GTX+ 512mb o/b mem RAM 4 Mb Corsair DDR3 1600Mhz
HDD Seagate 500Gb SATA2 7200rpm Audio Creative X-Fi Xtreme Audio7.1
OS XP Home SP3 Task Manager- 18 Apps running (incl TvsT) no overclocks

When I've flashed up Task Manager the core/s run about 53% so don't look like the're sweating!
I always felt a better GPU with at least 1Gb of quality onboard RAM (like DDR5) and a slightly quicker "screen monitor" response would lift my hardware performance up considerably. Also a sound card with some onboard processing RAM might help. Love to try and report all this theory but I'm in "saving up" mode at present :hmmm:

I honestly think Zee you've got your work cut out with this programme, I mean little things like your tank is ascending a hill - its sloping to the left
so you need constant/periodic attention to steering cos you'll steer following the lie of the land if you don't - like real life!! Now that's pretty wonderful but it must be hitting your resources (RAM, CPU whatever?).
I think you can only do the best you can and get a balance.

Has anyone noticed BTW when your tank hits a tree you sometimes stop and/or get the train on rails effect, but the other tanks seem to just steamroller through with no ill effects (Wolfgangs tree removal service someone called it :haha:). Maybe this effect if applied to all tanks would seize it all up on CPU oveload!! I don't know (there again there's a lot I don't know according to Mrs Panzer Commander).

I've solved nothing as usual!! "A problem shared is a problem Doubled" proven once again eh!!
All the Best - Mort :salute:

frinik 05-05-2010 01:05 AM

Tiger versus Tree 34....
 
Re " Has anyone noticed BTW when your tank hits a tree you sometimes stop and/or get the train on rails effect, but the other tanks seem to just steamroller through with no ill effects (Wolfgangs tree removal service someone called it :haha:). Maybe this effect if applied to all tanks would seize it all up on CPU oveload!! I don't know (there again there's a lot I don't know according to Mrs Panzer Commander).

Morty, I have been grumping about that same issue ever since I bought TvsT it seems like even a shrub can stop your Tiger dead in it's tracks!I already mentioned that problem to Zee as part of the things that need to be fixed but only once and after the important stuff has been addressed and taken care of. Meanwhile, I am considering renaming the game Tiger versus Tree 34?:rotfl2:

Cheers

ZeeWolf 05-06-2010 12:18 AM

Hi Guys,

I have tell you that this new German mission 3 is going to be ruff!
I figured I would re-work it a little and add a few new tweaked files to the
common folder along with the new German mission 4. Oh, and a little tweak
to the tree files :haha:
I have added a new Tiger Unit script to prepare for the new Tiger model I
am working on too. This way you can choose which Tiger to command, the Stock or the New.:know:
This method of adding another playerunit script will make the new model
easier to adopt in the game as well as not requiring all the mission content scripts to be edited(less chance of screw-ups).:up:

Well it's that time again here at the TreeWolf den.:rotfl2:
Cheers

ZW :yawn:

LcSummers 05-06-2010 01:09 AM

Hi ZW
 
Quote:I have tell you that this new German mission 3 is going to be ruff!
I figured I would re-work it a little and add a few new tweaked files to the
common folder along with the new German mission 4. Oh, and a little tweak
to the tree files :haha:
I have added a new Tiger Unit script to prepare for the new Tiger model I
am working on too. This way you can choose which Tiger to command, the Stock or the New.:know:
This method of adding another playerunit script will make the new model
easier to adopt in the game as well as not requiring all the mission content scripts to be edited(less chance of screw-ups).:up:


Hi ZW and members


These are very good news. Sure ZW i will try your new Tiger I no doubt about it. I know it is or will be much better than the old one.:up:
Are my men visible inside tank? Or is it to early to implement them because of low fps?

I realized this tree effect too with my tank against a tree. Now with trees tweaked i will be a perfect gardner with my Tiger I.:haha:

Quote: less chance of screw-ups

Wow!! lets see it. Less screw ups will mean more missions to concentrate on. :yeah:

Thank you ZW and dont hurry. We all know your efforts.

Eile mit Weile

LC :shucks:

frinik 05-06-2010 02:08 AM

Map Size
 
Zee what's special about the new Tiger model? Is it one of the latest versions of the Ausf.H?I know some versions carried up to 120 shells instead of the usual 92.

Zee; could you perhaps test my idea of shrinking the size of your mission area may be by half( 5 sq. km instead of 11) to see if it makes a significant difference in the fps count?I must say that I don't find the in game maps very useful.The briefing maps at at the beginning of a selected mission before you click on start are better.The problem with the in game ones is that your map size are so huge and the area we actually use during a given mission so small by comparison that it' s really difficult to track where we are and where the friendlies and enemies are.It's my own opinion and others may disagree.

Anyway lots of good stuff coming up our way :O:thanks to you.Mr Wolfman.

Lc stop thinking about the trees you're going to miss the improvements to the game again!!!! Ahhhh when it's not the Panzerinen it's the trees!!!!:D

Cheers

LcSummers 05-06-2010 06:52 AM

Hi Frinic
 
Hello Mr von Frinic!

Quote: Zee; could you perhaps test my idea of shrinking the size of your mission area may be by half( 5 sq. km instead of 11) to see if it makes a significant difference in the fps count?I must say that I don't find the in game maps very useful.The briefing maps at at the beginning of a selected mission before you click on start are better.The problem with the in game ones is that your map size are so huge and the area we actually use during a given mission so small by comparison that it' s really difficult to track where we are and where the friendlies and enemies are.It's my own opinion and others may disagree.

I must agree 100% with you frinic. I thought about it but didnt mentioned, thought i would be the only one.:hmmm:
The area is too huge, this eats to much resources, fps. With scaling the map down, i am really sure to increase performance. This can lead to that way, that ZW does not have to cancel 100 of tanks and artillery units.

As a Beta tester this is my opinion, itmay be a soloution wich may be preferred or not.:hmmm:


Lc stop thinking about the trees you're going to miss the improvements to the game again!!!! Ahhhh when it's not the Panzerinen it's the trees!!!!:D

Frinic, you didnt realised that i am no more thinking about these trees, i am focused on that new Tiger model with the new antenna.:haha:

So Herr frinic thought about our logo but i have found one wich is easier to install

:rotfl2: hey, its pink too

Cheers


LC

frinik 05-06-2010 09:26 AM

Maps
 
Lc you´re thinking about the new Tiger ????:hmmm:I´ll have to check it, I suspect the mannschaft must be all female.....

Well Lc pleased that we are thinking along the same lines( I am talking about the map size not the female crews:D).I also suspect that the fact that the original TvsT missions are played on fairly small maps(4 sq km???) compared to Zee´s which are 4 to 6 times bigger has to have a definite impact on the fpsd.Besides huge maps are nice but since we only use but a fraction of them they can be split into different zones where different , sequnetial missions could take place thus they would not be wasted.What do you think Zee????

morttheslayer 05-06-2010 02:04 PM

Sounds like the scorched earth is coming
 
Hi Zee like the sound of mission 3

I thought about what Frinic and Lc proposed, and if it were not for the performance issues I found in the re-worked missions (i.e. NOT Kursk) I would tend to agree.

But where there are lots of units and heavy action I found (note the first german mission - Tigers Shake Kurtinki patched to Pre Kursk Alpha) the FPS goes way down in the first encounter. So the point I make is some of these have smaller maps and maybe not the amount of scale of ops found in the Kursk mission but FPS issues are still present.

This compares to Kurskv.6 (light PC loading) where there are lots of units both friendly and enemy and heavy action AND a big map.

I think downsizing the map to say the size of german mission 1 (Tigers Shake K) MAY improve the FPS but only by say 1FPS.

Only my opinion and I may be way off, but for most PCs I think gain may be minimal.

Anyway I'd love to be wrong (Mrs Panzer Commander always says I am as you're all probably well aware).

Hanging in there and hope to be wrong!!

All the best - Mort :salute:

ZeeWolf 05-06-2010 05:34 PM

to better understand fps issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by morttheslayer (Post 1384098)
Hi Zee like the sound of mission 3

I thought about what Frinic and Lc proposed, and if it were not for the performance issues I found in the re-worked missions (i.e. NOT Kursk) I would tend to agree.

But where there are lots of units and heavy action I found (note the first german mission - Tigers Shake Kurtinki patched to Pre Kursk Alpha) the FPS goes way down in the first encounter. So the point I make is some of these have smaller maps and maybe not the amount of scale of ops found in the Kursk mission but FPS issues are still present.

This compares to Kurskv.6 (light PC loading) where there are lots of units both friendly and enemy and heavy action AND a big map.

I think downsizing the map to say the size of german mission 1 (Tigers Shake K) MAY improve the FPS but only by say 1FPS.

Only my opinion and I may be way off, but for most PCs I think gain may be minimal.

Anyway I'd love to be wrong (Mrs Panzer Commander always says I am as you're all probably well aware).

Hanging in there and hope to be wrong!!

All the best - Mort :salute:

Hello Kameraden,

frinik, LC and Mort of course your interest in finding solutions is very helpful.
Although the logic is good :know: concerning the large maps - but when applied
the results are not in agreement with that logic. :o
So, Mort is correct, the FPS is not dramatic enough to warrant a change
in map size. There is a definite combination of events that can only be
accessed through code. Even as far as we have come there is still allot
more to learn and discover in the ways to improve performance.
Believe this or not: I have yet to understand a majority of TvsT's code.
There still has been no work done in some important areas of this sim .
Areas that demand time and experimentation. One for example is the TIME
change capability i.e. 2x 4x 8x normal speed. This area [TIME] will unlock
the ability to better understand fps issue.
It has been 10 months since the ability to import the first working
fully animated tank (KV-85) in the game. When viewed from the point of
where we're at now I have to say the work on the FPS issue has just began.
It was the first part of April when this issue really became an obstacle to
progress. Therefore became a real target for my full attention.
This challenge should not be viewed as anymore difficult then the other
break through discoveries made to date.

So Kameraden, yes my work is cut out for me and I say Vorwärts! :up:

ZW :salute:

LcSummers 05-07-2010 01:27 AM

Hi Guys
 
QUOTE

Believe this or not: I have yet to understand a majority of TvsT's code.
There still has been no work done in some important areas of this sim .
Areas that demand time and experimentation. One for example is the TIME
change capability i.e. 2x 4x 8x normal speed. This area [TIME] will unlock
the ability to better understand fps issue.
It has been 10 months since the ability to import the first working
fully animated tank (KV-85) in the game. When viewed from the point of where we're at now I have to say the work on the FPS issue has just began.
It was the first part of April when this issue really became an obstacle to
progress. Therefore became a real target for my full attention.
This challenge should not be viewed as anymore difficult then the other break through discoveries made to date.

Hi Panzermänner,

ZW i am very pleased of your kindness and understanding concerning us members,our suggestions and TvTs code. This makes teamwork much easier. I really appreciate this. Thank you. :up:
One thing you really have to know is that i am not a programmer, i do not understand (in this case) TvTs code. So this can lead to unserious, wrong (or the other way around) suggestions but we all are trying the best. It is right when you see a way were i am impossible. Therefore correcting me in any way is always welcome.

The other thing what i read in your answer is that you are really convinced to solve problems with low fps. So there is a way to master it but this takes time as you are at the beginng to understand the code. :yeah:

See you all later or on weekend


LC

frinik 05-07-2010 01:45 AM

Ideas
 
:sunny:Lc don't be harsh on yourself, Herrn PanzerKommandant :yeah:.There's no such things as silly, ridiculous or wrong ideas on this forum( Hem :yawn:...).No seriously sometimes brainstorming, coming up with ideas as farfetched or unpractical as they may look can bring about positive change/solutions. I think Zee would rather have an active and interested audience/ membership of people who want to help, as mistaken we may be at times, than a group of amorphic, uniterested people who will not give him the time of day unless asked for:D.

So let's keep bringing suggestions with the only proviso of course that the suggestions have not already been proposed and discarded before.

Anyway as in anything a third party opinion is always useful because soemtimes we are so engrossed in what we do that we don't see the obvious.I am sure Zee agrees with me !

Regards to All!

Frinik

LcSummers 05-07-2010 02:33 AM

jawohl
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by frinik (Post 1384637)
:sunny:Lc don't be harsh on yourself, Herrn PanzerKommandant :yeah:.There's no such things as silly, ridiculous or wrong ideas on this forum( Hem :yawn:...).No seriously sometimes brainstorming, coming up with ideas as farfetched or unpractical as they may look can bring about positive change/solutions. I think Zee would rather have an active and interested audience/ membership of people who want to help, as mistaken we may be at times, than a group of amorphic, uniterested people who will not give him the time of day unless asked for:D.

So let's keep bringing suggestions with the only proviso of course that the suggestions have not already been proposed and discarded before.

Anyway as in anything a third party opinion is always useful because soemtimes we are so engrossed in what we do that we don't see the obvious.I am sure Zee agrees with me !

Regards to All!

Frinik


Hi frinic,

thank you for "your kind support" but sometimes this is reality :haha:.

All right, i know that brainstorming can lead to differtent ways :hmmm: maybe silly or not. Hopefully this low fps will be bugged out as soon as possible. Nothing is better to see my Tigers running , not retreating.
Lets get on with this great teamwork.

Till later


LC


PS: Can anyone say me if the Jagtiger (not Command Jagdtiger) had an antenna on the rear right side?

morttheslayer 05-08-2010 05:57 PM

We're in it for the ride; no-one said it would be easy
 
ZeeWolf you've dragged this sim up and given us all a massive amount of hope. Even with FPS issues we can see the potential.

If you could cover everything with snow and take all the leaves off the trees you could get another 8FPS I reckon :har:
Not for a summer campaign I might add!!

Seriously - I don't think any of us expected you to rewrite the whole programme.


BTW - I found a bug?? anomoly anyway,
Perhaps Frinic will kindly look out for it if he gets time, to confirm what I and Lc have found.
I call it "Tigers in the sky"! The installation of Kurskv.6 light affected me by altering the behaviour of the second Tiger in Two Russian missions Simaskovo Recon and Tiger Trap, also Second German mission attack on Beskudnikovo (spelling??).

The Pre kursk Alpha installation was fine.

In these Kursk v.6 (light) 3 missions the second Tiger appears to be elevated (no ground detail underneath) and looks suspended. This checks out at mission end when you use the tab key to check other units. In Tiger Trap I got "shot" early (deliberately) then used the tab to check the German column that hadn't departed/activated yet. The rear Tiger appeared some 8 metres in the air!
this apparent elevation worstens if the mission progresses.
In the second German mission the second Tiger starts out OK but ends up elevated.
Lc has confirmed that he has the same result as me with the Russian Tiger Trap mission, and is checking others.

I'm sure this can be cured if a common fault - but thought I would point it out to see if anyone else has this problem?

Zee I don't expect you to drop everything because this has not been definately confirmed yet so please don't. You have enough to do.
It just may be a couple of us with this problem - possibly needs re-installing?? Would really appreciate anyone else's comment on this particular anomoly to compare. Anyway definately more checking required here.

All the Best - Mort:salute:

ZeeWolf 05-08-2010 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morttheslayer (Post 1386100)
ZeeWolf you've dragged this sim up and given us all a massive amount of hope. Even with FPS issues we can see the potential.

If you could cover everything with snow and take all the leaves off the trees you could get another 8FPS I reckon :har:
Not for a summer campaign I might add!!

Seriously - I don't think any of us expected you to rewrite the whole programme.


BTW - I found a bug?? anomoly anyway,
Perhaps Frinic will kindly look out for it if he gets time, to confirm what I and Lc have found.
I call it "Tigers in the sky"! The installation of Kurskv.6 light affected me by altering the behaviour of the second Tiger in Two Russian missions Simaskovo Recon and Tiger Trap, also Second German mission attack on Beskudnikovo (spelling??).

The Pre kursk Alpha installation was fine.

In these Kursk v.6 (light) 3 missions the second Tiger appears to be elevated (no ground detail underneath) and looks suspended. This checks out at mission end when you use the tab key to check other units. In Tiger Trap I got "shot" early (deliberately) then used the tab to check the German column that hadn't departed/activated yet. The rear Tiger appeared some 8 metres in the air!
this apparent elevation worstens if the mission progresses.
In the second German mission the second Tiger starts out OK but ends up elevated.
Lc has confirmed that he has the same result as me with the Russian Tiger Trap mission, and is checking others.

I'm sure this can be cured if a common fault - but thought I would point it out to see if anyone else has this problem?

Zee I don't expect you to drop everything because this has not been definately confirmed yet so please don't. You have enough to do.
It just may be a couple of us with this problem - possibly needs re-installing?? Would really appreciate anyone else's comment on this particular anomoly to compare. Anyway definately more checking required here.

All the Best - Mort:salute:

No Mort it has been confirmed well enough. :yep: I just finished an e-mail concerning this same issue in the stock German mission 2. So I will
definitely get it sorted out. Meanwhile I just went through hell yesterday
and finally figured out my problem this morning with a Ram upgrade on
this new Asus P5Q Pro Turbo MoBo. :damn:My Ram modules are the wrong
model for a 4Gig upgrade. Oh well so much for that. :shifty:

Anyway the German Mission 3 and 4 release would be great place to put the Flying Tiger fix in. And at this point who knows what else I could fit
in this release too. :salute:

Vorwärts Kameraden!

ZW

Lazarus905 05-08-2010 08:47 PM

Wait, I need to pay for your mod?


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