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-   -   Modern Naval Warfare - Best control room ever (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=247418)

Onkel Neal 11-23-2020 05:09 PM

Modern Naval Warfare - Best control room ever
 
In which we examined and compared the control room schemes between older nuke subsims and Modern Naval Warfare, the first candidate to replace Dangerous Waters in 15 years.

Modern Naval Warfare - Best control room ever
https://youtu.be/n2itTi9Zbbc

Newinger 11-24-2020 09:09 AM

This video looks very very promising.

mapuc 11-24-2020 01:32 PM

it looks very interesting.

A critical comment.

When I saw the title Modern Naval warfare I presumed it contained not only subs but also surface ships. And that you, as the player, could chose which one depending on mission or campaign.

Like in Dangerous Waters.

Markus

bstanko6 11-24-2020 09:15 PM

This is definitely a game that will launch sub simulations forward into a new frontier.

Modern sub games are lacking and I think this will bring the genre into new territory! It looks so smooth... and the photonics mast marks it officially a present day sub game.

I hope to get my hands on a demo. But I will be purchasing this beauty! Guarantee it.

stormrider_sp 11-25-2020 03:52 PM

Love the concept, thank you for making this real.

kenz69 11-26-2020 03:48 AM

very instructive video, thanks !

it looks beautiful

nethertheless, I have doubts. I might be wrong, I hope to be wrong. Let me try to explain my idea.

By the availables videos, It seems they are aiming at some kind of Wolfpack gameplay but in a modern sub.
The concept is awesome in term of gameplay experience, it works very well for Uboot simulation juged by the sucess in popularity of the wolfpack game. But I think it wont work for modern subsim, let me explain.

I think the sucess of a modern subsim that could succeed DW is based on two major things : realism and choice of playable units.
DW have a great success still cause it is really deep in term of simulation and because you have a great choice in terms of units, in the base game and thanks to mods. (by the way i think those two points make the success of CMO aswell, their huge database of units, weapons etc..is their major argument).

Thats where my doubt arise, even if they achieve a level of system depth that wil satisfy the more hardcore DW players, it will be very difficult to achieve the variability in terms of units. cause modders/dev will have to model the whole damn sub interior, consoles etc.. in 3D ! it will be too much of work to see real variability and choice arising.

Thats why I think if they go for some kind of Wolfpack gameplay with one or two subs really well designed (but only a few) it will have success but not as much as DW.
IMHO I think they should have or maybe make it possible to have units only with exterior 3D + 2D panels, so modders can create hell lot of units. So players can have realisme+choice that are the key for the success and longevity in modern warfare naval sims. Simply said creating not only a game but a platform.

UglyMowgli 11-26-2020 11:53 AM

They are a small team. So better start small and make it right than trying to do a full half botched lots of playable units full of bugs.

"Small is smooth, smooth is Big" :D :D



First a sub, then a DLC with more subs (and a new map) then an another with surface ships,....

kenz69 11-26-2020 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UglyMowgli (Post 2709506)
full half botched lots of playable units full of bugs.

not what I meant, I lean more toward a few vanilla units well modelised, but in a less fancy way but strong and reliable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UglyMowgli (Post 2709506)
They are a small team.

exactly, thats why I'm doubting when i see this shiny control 3D control room. I hope they will prioritise reliability, game mechanics accuracy, software modding capabilities etc..over fancy 3D modelling


Quote:

Originally Posted by UglyMowgli (Post 2709506)
First a sub, then a DLC with more subs (and a new map) then an another with surface ships,....

Thats where I doubt. For this part IMHO the modding community is more reliable than the developper (by experience from other platforms). We can trust the community to create addons/mods that will be accurates and in number.
If the fancy part is to complicated and need too much work (3D modeling), only the developpers will be able to add subs, ships, maps, weapons etc..and I think it is not a situation that leads to longevity for a game.

UglyMowgli 11-26-2020 04:04 PM

What we want, what the developers want and what ultimately the publisher will do . That's the big question.

mapuc 11-26-2020 05:48 PM

It's like they have taken Subcommand into a new era.

Every time a company start to develop a sub game I always get this little hope, that they also will create some kind of addon where the player can play with destroyer or play against sub from the main game.

I truly miss our SHII versus Destroyer Command MP.

Markus

kenz69 11-27-2020 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UglyMowgli (Post 2709572)
What we want, what the developers want and what ultimately the publisher will do . That's the big question.


beautiful sea and ships graphics like cold waters
3D interior with other players/autocrew avatars like wolfpack
accuracy and exhaustivity in units/weapons like CMO
accurate sound propagation and sensors behavior like DW

:sunny:

we know it's not achievable
in my opinion the later two are the most important and they are the points to prioritize

maslas 11-30-2020 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc (Post 2709076)
it looks very interesting.

A critical comment.

When I saw the title Modern Naval warfare I presumed it contained not only subs but also surface ships. And that you, as the player, could chose which one depending on mission or campaign.

Like in Dangerous Waters.

Markus


Hi Markus, the idea is this. We want to reach the point of commanding surface ships (frigates, destroyers) but they will eventually come in later DLCs.
Hence the name and your critical comment.


:Kaleun_Applaud:

maslas 12-01-2020 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenz69 (Post 2709414)
very instructive video, thanks !

it looks beautiful

nethertheless, I have doubts. I might be wrong, I hope to be wrong. Let me try to explain my idea.

By the availables videos, It seems they are aiming at some kind of Wolfpack gameplay but in a modern sub.
The concept is awesome in term of gameplay experience, it works very well for Uboot simulation juged by the sucess in popularity of the wolfpack game. But I think it wont work for modern subsim, let me explain.

I think the sucess of a modern subsim that could succeed DW is based on two major things : realism and choice of playable units.
DW have a great success still cause it is really deep in term of simulation and because you have a great choice in terms of units, in the base game and thanks to mods. (by the way i think those two points make the success of CMO aswell, their huge database of units, weapons etc..is their major argument).

Thats where my doubt arise, even if they achieve a level of system depth that wil satisfy the more hardcore DW players, it will be very difficult to achieve the variability in terms of units. cause modders/dev will have to model the whole damn sub interior, consoles etc.. in 3D ! it will be too much of work to see real variability and choice arising.

Thats why I think if they go for some kind of Wolfpack gameplay with one or two subs really well designed (but only a few) it will have success but not as much as DW.
IMHO I think they should have or maybe make it possible to have units only with exterior 3D + 2D panels, so modders can create hell lot of units. So players can have realisme+choice that are the key for the success and longevity in modern warfare naval sims. Simply said creating not only a game but a platform.


Thank you for your thorough thought :yeah:
You are very right on many of your points but please consider this. There is a point were you reach a development crossroad and you have to chose a road and each road has its hazards and highways but from my experience I can assure you about one thing.

"There is no perfect road"

In all the millions of software out there and all the solutions given to problems by them, no matter the sector, there isn't anything perfect.
However, there are those that had a vision and a solid plan during their development process and managed to pull it through and give it to their target audience with success.
For instance, if we think to do 3D subs with 2D panels we will help modders as you say but then we will end up creating something which is closer to Cold Waters and not Dangerous Waters.
Our choice might not help modders create thousands of subs but it will give them the true feeling that they are in command of some subs.
And I ask what is missing from the community for the past 15 years?

A big modding platform?

Or a real Sim?

Thanks Again and never stop speaking your mind :up:

maslas 12-01-2020 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc (Post 2709594)
It's like they have taken Subcommand into a new era.

Every time a company start to develop a sub game I always get this little hope, that they also will create some kind of addon where the player can play with destroyer or play against sub from the main game.

I truly miss our SHII versus Destroyer Command MP.

Markus


Me too

kenz69 12-01-2020 04:29 AM


thanks for your answer
Actually, I changed my mind after the interview with chazly.
Indeed you have a vision, aiming at some sort of naval DCS, with a strong base platform and dlc units modeled in details. that's a lot more than just giving a successor to DW.

Thats very interesting, very ambitious and long term (juste think where DCS was 10y ago). I'm more a P3D guy with all the good pmdg fslabs stuff, but I understand the power of such a model in the long term.

really exiting ! wish you best luck in this enterprise !


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