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-   -   [REL] Unit damage from smoke and/or fires (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=180921)

TheDarkWraith 03-16-2011 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubini (Post 1620950)
Ok, here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ighlight=depth

Itīs about to make the DDs a bit blind after a DC explode. A disturbance for the ASDIC and hidrophones, as in real life, to add to the game uncertanty and real tatics.

Itīs an old mod idea, an old wish by the players, that never was achieved by any mod or modder. A lot of approachs already was tried, neither had success. The better idea was to add a "Bold disturbance effect" to the DC explosion, this way blinding a bit the DDs.

When I saw your mod implementation idea (damage by fire) I pick up again some hope but as i said above seems that the problem is that bold (and also torpedos), wich are fired by the player, are handle in a different way by the game engine and donīt full work when we try to use them on mods.

Any idea?:hmmm:

sure do. The effect that is played when the DC explodes could be changed to point to either:
- a new type 4/100 node that has a bold effect tied to it that lasts for say 2-3 seconds or
- straight to a bold effect with a lifetime of 2-3 seconds

That's what I would try first

Rubini 03-16-2011 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith (Post 1620995)
sure do. The effect that is played when the DC explodes could be changed to point to either:
- a new type 4/100 node that has a bold effect tied to it that lasts for say 2-3 seconds or
- straight to a bold effect with a lifetime of 2-3 seconds

That's what I would try first

These I already tried. But the game just CTD when a DC explode. After some time looking at others possibilities to tie the bold effect, always without success, I start to think what I exposed above: probably the game donīt allow us to have a virtual full working objects that are primarely destinated to the player use (torpedo and bold), differentely from AI objects like bombs, DC, etc. In my tests any Ai object worked without problems. Only bold (I didnīt tested torpedos) lead to CTD.:damn:

Well, after hours and hours trying it i give up. But as we already saw here a lot of times, perhaps someone will finally find a way to do it in some moment in near future.:up:

Edit: So, i guess that the problem is the player "ignition" routine. IIRC when we tried virtual torpedos, they had a fixed direction, making modded virtual torpedos unuseful, showing to us that something more is needed that is hardcoded (until now); seems now that the bold also needs some hidden routine to ignite it correctly...the game donīt find it and CTD. Just a guess...

Robin40 03-17-2011 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubini (Post 1621026)
These I already tried. But the game just CTD when a DC explode. After some time looking at others possibilities to tie the bold effect, always without success, I start to think what I exposed above: probably the game donīt allow us to have a virtual full working objects that are primarely destinated to the player use (torpedo and bold), differentely from AI objects like bombs, DC, etc. In my tests any Ai object worked without problems. Only bold (I didnīt tested torpedos) lead to CTD.:damn:

Well, after hours and hours trying it i give up. But as we already saw here a lot of times, perhaps someone will finally find a way to do it in some moment in near future.:up:

Edit: So, i guess that the problem is the player "ignition" routine. IIRC when we tried virtual torpedos, they had a fixed direction, making modded virtual torpedos unuseful, showing to us that something more is needed that is hardcoded (until now); seems now that the bold also needs some hidden routine to ignite it correctly...the game donīt find it and CTD. Just a guess...

Do you mean that DD's are not deaf when DC's are exploding?

Damn...I thought to use a tricky tactics to excape: when a DC explodes I increase speed to 3, then I stop engines when explosions cease

Rubini 03-17-2011 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin40 (Post 1621115)
Do you mean that DD's are not deaf when DC's are exploding?

Damn...I thought to use a tricky tactics to excape: when a DC explodes I increase speed to 3, then I stop engines when explosions cease

Yes, exactly they are not being deaf by exploding DC in Sh3...but DD's rear is deaf (ASDIC geometry). Perhaps one day we will also achieve to add DC disturbance for ASDIC. Then we will have new tatics to explore.:up:

LGN1 03-17-2011 03:26 PM

Thanks for the explanation, Rubini! It's a pity that it doesn't work :cry:

Probably the best solution would be to deactivate the ships' ASDIC/Hydrophones for a short period of time. But how :hmmm:

Cheers, LGN1

TheDarkWraith 03-18-2011 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubini (Post 1621202)
Yes, exactly they are not being deaf by exploding DC in Sh3...but DD's rear is deaf (ASDIC geometry). Perhaps one day we will also achieve to add DC disturbance for ASDIC. Then we will have new tatics to explore.:up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by LGN1 (Post 1621541)
Thanks for the explanation, Rubini! It's a pity that it doesn't work :cry:

Probably the best solution would be to deactivate the ships' ASDIC/Hydrophones for a short period of time. But how :hmmm:

Cheers, LGN1

Figured out how to cause a disturbance.....and it works :rock: Yes this does make for some interesting tactics now. Now I must make this for SH5 and SH4! :D

Fish In The Water 03-18-2011 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith (Post 1622762)
Figured out how to cause a disturbance.....and it works :rock: Yes this does make for some interesting tactics now.

Great news! This kind of realism is an absolute must. Puts a capital 'S' in sim... Many thanks! :up:

Rubini 03-18-2011 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith (Post 1622762)
Figured out how to cause a disturbance.....and it works :rock: Yes this does make for some interesting tactics now. Now I must make this for SH5 and SH4! :D

Awesome mate! Many thanks! I will test it asap and post feedbacks on the correct thread.:up::up:

maillemaker 03-30-2011 12:35 PM

Wow, this is an awesome mod, can't wait to get home and try it! It's a shame that fire never caused damage all along!

Quote:

Itīs about to make the DDs a bit blind after a DC explode. A disturbance for the ASDIC and hidrophones, as in real life, to add to the game uncertanty and real tatics.

Itīs an old mod idea, an old wish by the players, that never was achieved by any mod or modder. A lot of approachs already was tried, neither had success. The better idea was to add a "Bold disturbance effect" to the DC explosion, this way blinding a bit the DDs.
And all this time I thought that DCs DID cause sonar problems, and was gunning the engines and cutting them after the explosions stopped!

Is there a mod for this, now, too?

Steve

frau kaleun 03-30-2011 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maillemaker (Post 1631468)
And all this time I thought that DCs DID cause sonar problems, and was gunning the engines and cutting them after the explosions stopped!

Is there a mod for this, now, too?

:yep:

Depth Charge Water Disturbances

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=181513

maillemaker 03-30-2011 07:40 PM

thanks frau!

frau kaleun 03-30-2011 08:35 PM

You're very welcome!

Stiebler 04-25-2011 09:57 AM

Saved games may not reload
 
When testing this mod extensively, and the depthcharges disturbance mod, for a new version of NYGM, I found that it was almost impossible to reload any saved game. (Releases of NYGM are tested with a full career.)

The problem of reloading saved games which then cause CTDs is very well known, and can have a number of causes, but I could not reload *any* game created after sighting any enemy unit (sea or air or convoy), evading it to a safe distance, then making a saved game. I could only reload a game saved soon after departing base, when no enemy had yet been seen.

By a tedious process of systematic trial and error, it became clear that it was one or other (or both) of the TDW_Ship_Plane_Fire_Damage_v1.4_SH3 and the TDW_DC_waterdisturbance_V4.0_SH3 that was corrupting the saved game (almost certainly the Ship_Plane_Fire_Dame mod). Once these files were removed, it became possible to save and reload games again - subject to all the usual limitations!

This a great pity, because I think the Ship_Plane_Fire mod is wonderful in operation. But I cannot add it as it stands to NYGM. Sometimes one wants to save one's game.

Has anyone else noted this problem, not necessarily with NYGM?

Stiebler.

A6Intruder 04-25-2011 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiebler (Post 1650520)
When testing this mod extensively, and the depthcharges disturbance mod, for a new version of NYGM, I found that it was almost impossible to reload any saved game. (Releases of NYGM are tested with a full career.)

The problem of reloading saved games which then cause CTDs is very well known, and can have a number of causes, but I could not reload *any* game created after sighting any enemy unit (sea or air or convoy), evading it to a safe distance, then making a saved game. I could only reload a game saved soon after departing base, when no enemy had yet been seen.

By a tedious process of systematic trial and error, it became clear that it was one or other (or both) of the TDW_Ship_Plane_Fire_Damage_v1.4_SH3 and the TDW_DC_waterdisturbance_V4.0_SH3 that was corrupting the saved game (almost certainly the Ship_Plane_Fire_Dame mod). Once these files were removed, it became possible to save and reload games again - subject to all the usual limitations!

This a great pity, because I think the Ship_Plane_Fire mod is wonderful in operation. But I cannot add it as it stands to NYGM. Sometimes one wants to save one's game.

Has anyone else noted this problem, not necessarily with NYGM?

Stiebler.

Hi,
yes i could confirm your words. After my testings with LSH 5.1, in my opinion it has to be: TDW_DC_waterdisturbance_V4.0_SH3 Mod.
I only could reload when no enemy ship was sunk before.
Best regards:salute:

Salvadoreno 04-25-2011 01:39 PM

p.s link down.

I may have to confirm this too. I didnt realize it but i cant reload my saved games after i sink a ship either (or get depth charged). I am running GWX 3.0 and a lot of other mods, so i cannot be TOO sure, but it looks likely with all the described problems above.

LGN1 04-25-2011 03:13 PM

Hi Stiebler,

I've just made a quick test with a scr campaign file containing only a single ship. I had no problems with saving at any instance :hmmm:

I don't know which exe you use, but Privateer once mentioned that the no-cd exe (the cracked one with starforce removed) is less stable than the original exe without any starforce trace (the one h.sie uses for his patches). I use the original one without starforce. I guess you too. If not, this might be the difference :hmmm:

BTW, have you tested the water disturbance mod? I made several tests and could not find any clear sign that it is actually doing what it's supposed to do. My feeling is that it has no influence at all on the AI. See here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=121

and the other posts in the thread. If you have made some tests with different results it would be great if you could share them!

Regards, LGN1

Fish In The Water 04-25-2011 03:19 PM

Interesting observations, I think I'll look into this as well... :hmmm:

frau kaleun 04-25-2011 04:14 PM

Are these problems only with NYGM and LSH? Or is it happening with GWX as well?

Edit: Never mind, just saw Salvadoreno's post above.

sharkbit 04-25-2011 04:34 PM

Hmmmm....:hmmm:

You know, I had a CTD after reloading a save after I had sunk a ship and I thought I might finally be the victim of a save game crash. I have always ignored the rules and have never had a problem until then.

I had to restart the career. The last time I played, I had just sunk a ship and was well away from the convoy and getting into position to pursue and reposition for a second attack when I had to call it quits and I saved.

I haven't loaded that save yet but now you really have my curiosity up on what might happen. I do have both those mods enabled and it is the first time I've played with them.

I will advise when I try it.
:)

frau kaleun 04-25-2011 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkbit (Post 1650803)
Hmmmm....:hmmm:

You know, I had a CTD after reloading a save after I had sunk a ship and I thought I might finally be the victim of a save game crash. I have always ignored the rules and have never had a problem until then.

I had to restart the career. The last time I played, I had just sunk a ship and was well away from the convoy and getting into position to pursue and reposition for a second attack when I had to call it quits and I saved.

I haven't loaded that save yet but now you really have my curiosity up on what might happen. I do have both those mods enabled and it is the first time I've played with them.

I will advise when I try it.
:)

May just be me, but it does seem like we've had quite a few reports lately of people not being able to load any saves made while at sea in mid-patrol. I don't think anyone's specifically mentioned these mods in relation to that, but who would've made the connection without a lot of extensive testing directed at them in particular? :hmmm:


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