SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - Shall we talk about file sizes in mods?

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- - Shall we talk about file sizes in mods? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=239249)

Revelutionary find! A tool like that would not only open up more possibilities in terms of heavier expansion mods but also to make very high quality lightweight mods for non-gaming laptops.

Extraordinary find and plans, guys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by areo16 (Post 2579190)

Thanks for the offsets for the .dat file in hex very helpful.

So I understand the optimized approach you are talking about here, you are still copying the same model (obj) over and over again in S3D?

Isn't it possible to just reference the same model in S3D and just go about it that way, wouldn't that save space?

I guess, from a hex point of view, what edits would we want to make to these files to make them more optimized. Looks like looking for duplicate data chunks for models (type 1) is step 1, and then possibly deleting the duplicates and re-reference the deleted duplicate data chunks with the original model reference id?

@EDIT

Yes in S3D it is possible to reference the same model in multiple nodes and this works just fine. It also decreases file space.

Is it possible to reference a model ID that is in another .dat file?

The Sea Forts were built in a program much like S3D. It's called Jammu.
ref never released it because he didn't feel it was good enough (Suffered from some annoying bugs now and then) and did not want to support it nor anyone that may use it. It actually pre-dates S3D by several years!
I still use it as it has the ability to mass export ALL 3D objects and UV mappings in one click! (Then it crashes) :D

You can use the Placement node as one way to use objects from a different dat. Look at how Harbors and Cities are done.

On the format of dats? Look at one in S3D with the List view. That show how the dat is actually coded from node 1 to the end of file.
The Tree view makes it easier for you to understand the relationship of each node

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves (Post 2579012)

BBW,
Take a look at the NBB_Nevada in the SH4 sea folder.
(I can send it to you if you don't have SH4)
You might recall I tested this just after SH4 came out as We were putting the BuV_Dock1 and BuV_Dock2 into GWX.

The Nevada comes with the Uboat missions addon :doh:

Well I tried the line additions as in the Nevada cfg and left the M06A and M06X Sea folders the same as in the Nevada.

All 3 units show in mission editor, all 3 show in recognition manual but only the M06B shows in game :hmmm:

Museum CTDs when close to those merchants calling on the other 3d model

Back to the drawing board

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly (Post 2579250)

I'll change some files in my install.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves (Post 2579251)

Jammu looks kind of like this.

https://i108.photobucket.com/albums/...Capture002.jpg

Ooh the harbour editor
It did exist then :har:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves (Post 2579252)

I'll change some files in my install.

If you need any files give me a shout, not sure what you have or dont have

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly (Post 2579253)

Ooh the harbour editor
It did exist then :har:

Yes it did. In a way. You couldn't change anything. Just view it.
ref never finished it and I lost his source code long ago!
:wah:
I still have his source code for Jammu and SH3 to SH4 but not being a Delhi programmer could never get them built.
I may try again at some point.

I'll have to play with the usemodel thing. I know it worked before as you pointed out at the time that one dock was submerged. So we scrapped the idea. To bad the old hang out is gone. There was an unreal amount of knowledge there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves (Post 2579260)

Yes there was, masses of very useful knowledge

Love the signature pic btw

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigWalleye (Post 2579168)

On the day when we have all the time in the world and all the manpower in the world, we will not have to prioritize anything, and everything that needs to be done will get done. Until then, I personally believe adding new capabilities to SH3 is a better use of scarce modder time than cleaning up existing mods that work adequately. But that's just my opinion. As I pointed out, I am not modding, and what project any modder chooses to work on is a strictly up to them. I just wanted to lobby for considering an alternative.

My interpretation of "Better is the enemy of good enough." is the one endorsed by Winston Churchill, who had considerable experience in effectively prioritizing limited resources. (AFAIK, it was Churchill who coined that aphorism, or at least popularized it.)

And no, it was not a 704. The 704 used two different instruction formats, but each one was 36 bits long. And the addressing was 36-bit oriented. A hint: It was a mini-computer and the bulk storage device was called DECtape.

I agree with you on prioritizing. IF you have a Team that is working on things. There's a Very Good Team doing that in SH4 now. Along with the Great SH3 mod Teams still going strong.

The ending of GWX4 may have been one of the greatest mistakes in SH history!
Tools were written to MASS export models to the SH4 format, Tools were under way to convert the Campaign files to SH4 format, The GWX Team had Jammu way before S3D came into being, (Dan even threatened to steal my NoteBook when shown a copy at the 2008 SubSim meet),
other planned changes to the files and such are mind blowing!
The impending release of SH5 and what was promised resulted in the biggest loss to SH4 and all players/modders then many even know about.

I'm good at a lot of things when it comes to how the files all work together.
How to cut file sizes and so on. Not just in SH3 but SH4 and SH5.
It's better I work that area since it's what I am interested in doing and know the file structures. So my time is well spent for every other modder to do his thing.

In the case of some interiors being done? They were taken from SH5 (In some cases)and put into SH3. I wrote an exporter that allowed modders to grab the 3D files! Was that a waste of my time? NOPE!
(And I did get a cease and desist over that little tool!)
:03:

So WAC has the Type II, Type VII, and Type IX.

One of the PDP's?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly (Post 2579253)

Ooh the harbour editor
It did exist then :har:

Digging...

This is the only editors I found in Maiks collection:

./RACERBOY (THE DARK WRAITH)/TDW_SDL_Editor_v1_2_0.zip
./SH3 TUTORIALS/HexEditor-Anleitung.pdf
./SH3 TUTORIALS/SH3_MISSION_EDITOR_EN.pdf
./SH3 TUTORIALS/sh3_missioneditor_v15.pdf

Don't see Harbour Editor anywhere.

(I used lftp to grep all files in Maiks collection)

Quote:

Originally Posted by areo16 (Post 2579274)

It was never released. Only a few people ever saw the Alpha version.
I had a copy along with the source code years ago. I've since lost even a working version.
You probably only see Jammu mentioned in some files as it was never released.
If memory serves me right? It would not import 3D models.
We'd do that in a hex editor then check with Jammu.

We had another program that would take an obj file and create a hex out put that we would cut and paste into a dat.
Yes. A lot of work! But it was the only way 10 years ago.

I bought my first NoteBook to do work with as I travelled a lot back then also.
I'd go back to the Motel rooms and edit files when the other Guys went to a Bar or something.
I have travelled with a NoteBook every since. I never know when an idea will hit me.

We had an SDL editor LONG before RacerBoy/TDW came around.

No I never saw the harbour editor either, even tho it was for me primarily :har:
Good old Ref, wonder where he vanished to. Such a shame

You and he made a great team,