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-   -   TWOS too easy? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=252732)

StimpsonJCat 05-19-2022 03:34 PM

TWOS too easy?
 
I've played a least 320 hours of SH5 with TWOS mod. Needless to say i've gotten quite good at calculating AOB, speed, distance, etc. of my targets and I routinely rack up massive tonnage totals on each patrol. I recently started a new career beginning in Happy Times and on my second patrol I sunk around 77,000 tons.



Granted, i'm not using real navigation but I do have map contacts turned off. I find that sinking ships, even very large ones, almost always takes only a single torpedo. On the last patrol that I just mentioned I sank a European Ocean liner with a single torpedo. I shot two, one was a dud. That was also my only dud in two entire patrols. I got a "ship sunk" notification almost immediately so it wasn't like it took on too much water over a prolonged period.



I've read Hitler's U-boat War vol 1 & 2 and based on the meticulous research in that book I would think it would take more torpedoes to put a large ship under and that there should be a higher percentage of duds, especially before 1941.



I remember during a campaign i played a while back where I had a couple torpedoes left and just happened upon a large convoy with a British Capital ship laughably positioned on the the outer column of the convoy. I decided I might as well try to damage the ship even though two torpedoes might not be enough to sink it. I fired the torpedoes, one hit and the other either missed or was a dud (I do not recall). The ship sank.



Some of my high tonnage totals I think are more a result of there being far more ship traffic than there was in real life. It's simply easier to find targets and I get why that makes the game a little more exciting. But it's still too easy to sink ships. Does Anyone else find this to be the case?

Markus Witt 05-20-2022 10:55 AM

Torpedoes are too powerfull in TWOS. As you said one torpedo is almost always enough to sink any vessel. This is a major weakness of SH5 / TWOS. SH3 does a better job at this as far as I remember.

I did some testing with the torpedoes in TWOS, adjusting the minimum and maximum damage values. I was able to get some better results were I normally needed 2 torpedoes to sink larger ships but I did not find a truly satisfactory outcome. It seems no matter what values you use, two torpedoes is always enough to sink any ship. Needing 4-5 torpedoes on occasion as sometimes happened IRL never happens in TWOS. And when you reduce the maximum damage value too much then smaller ships can absorb one torpedo too often without effect.

As far as traffic is concerned in TWOS, this depends on the area were you are. In general traffic is higher than IRL, which makes sense since it is a game. This is the same in SH3. I have had patrols in TWOS were I had no contacts for a couple of weeks, so this does happen especially if you are in the middle of the atlantic.

TWOS has it's strenghts and weaknesses. It does some things better than SH3 and some things worse. Neither is perfect.

StimpsonJCat 05-22-2022 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Witt (Post 2809527)
Torpedoes are too powerfull in TWOS. As you said one torpedo is almost always enough to sink any vessel. This is a major weakness of SH5 / TWOS. SH3 does a better job at this as far as I remember.

I did some testing with the torpedoes in TWOS, adjusting the minimum and maximum damage values. I was able to get some better results were I normally needed 2 torpedoes to sink larger ships but I did not find a truly satisfactory outcome. It seems no matter what values you use, two torpedoes is always enough to sink any ship. Needing 4-5 torpedoes on occasion as sometimes happened IRL never happens in TWOS. And when you reduce the maximum damage value too much then smaller ships can absorb one torpedo too often without effect.

As far as traffic is concerned in TWOS, this depends on the area were you are. In general traffic is higher than IRL, which makes sense since it is a game. This is the same in SH3. I have had patrols in TWOS were I had no contacts for a couple of weeks, so this does happen especially if you are in the middle of the atlantic.

TWOS has it's strenghts and weaknesses. It does some things better than SH3 and some things worse. Neither is perfect.


At least now i know that it's just a design flaw in SH5. To make it more realistic I can try to fire more torpedoes per ship, even if it's not technically necessary. It's not very immersive when I sink 14 ships with 14 torpedoes on a patrol, regardless of size.

Markus Witt 05-23-2022 01:39 AM

You could try the mod in the below link.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/3mat4...power.rar/file

To be intalled with JSGME. In this mod I changed the min and max damage values of the torpedoes in the torpedoes_g7a-e.zon file. With these values one torpedo is no longer always enough. Especially larger vessel often require 2 torpedoes. It is far from perfect but I think it is an improvement. At least now there is some uncertainty and you will be forced to use more torpedoes on juicy targets. This should reduce the tonnage scores somewhat. This mod was just an experiment and I could not really get the results I was looking for and testing these results was very time consuming. So there may be better values than I use but I think the ones I use work reasonably well. You could try it and see if you like it. Test the results yourself using the "new merchant fleet" test mission.

Note that with the values in this mod quite often when you hit a vessel it has no effect initially but after a while, sometimes a few hours, the vessel will suddenly drop out of the convoy and either sink or trail behind at reduced speed. It will also leave vessels dead in the water occasionally requiring a coup de grace.

As I have no Mediafire account this file will only be up for two weeks.

herkan 05-24-2022 12:53 PM

I'm currently experiencing the other side of the coin..


Been on patrol in northwestern approaches from 29-12-1939 to 20-01-1940, 0 merchants spotted

Came upon a destroyer at 800 meters range coming at me with beaming searchlights during light fog, crash dived and got depth charged for 3 hours after losing him by running silent at 200m.. or maybe he just ran out of fireworks

Crash dived to aircraft 5 or 6 times

No torpedoes expended and almost out of fuel..

les green01 06-03-2022 12:44 PM

i have had some go up with one hit some took multiple hits some didn't sink also i limit myself by not attacking in +6 or more sea and wind state


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