Question before purchasing the game.
 

Hello, I am thinking of purchasing the game, yet one concern lies in my head preventing me from doing so; are U-boats controllable by the player, or are they only controlled by the AI?

They are controllable on the strategic map (i.e. you can send them places and they will attack ships), but not on the tactical map or in battles; they do appear in engagements, but all they will do is launch torpedoes (if they are close to an enemy ship) and dive at the start of a scenario, "disappearing" from the map.

Granted, that's not unfair - given the limitations of both the U-boats and ASW in that period, direct tactical control over subs would make them extremely unrealistic.

Strategically, subs aren't incredibly effective, but are able to throw in some very nasty surprises nonetheless. I've lost several capital ships and countless smaller ships to torpedo attacks on the strategic map, and even when these attacks don't sink anything, they can seriously damage ships and result in long repair times. They are also okay at scouting and excellent at commerce raiding.

However the game is really not "about" subs in any serious fashion - it's about surface combat, mostly between "big guys". You will be dealing with your subs for maybe 1% of your time in the game.

Thank you for the reply.Hmm guess it does make sense, considering the communications of the era, in addition to the fact that the game is focused on Fleet battles, of the Mahan philosophy that was prevalent of the time. Could it be modded? Either way, I will buy this game sooner or later. I have been in the WW1 mood, in particular the U-boats, and the Ottoman Front, a shame there arent too many games about WW1, such a fascinating subject.:Kaleun_Salute:

I'd love to see controllable subs, and if SES plan to continue making games in the future in other theaters and later periods, they will HAVE to make controllable subs eventually (and aircraft). Actually most of the pieces required for it are already there - the subs exist as 3D units that can dive and launch torpedoes. The real problem is that there is no ASW behaviour of any kind. It's the same with the Zeppelins in game - they exist as 3D units and fly correctly, but there is no AA behaviour, so they are also not player-controllable in battles.

Sadly, the modding ability is very limited right now because the game's code and data are closed. I know there was some talk about opening it up more earlier, but I'm not sure much came out of that in the end.

Check out Steam and Iron, tactical naval combat in WW1 over at NWS.

http://forums.navalwarfare.net/showt...WNLOADS-THREAD

Comes with fleets from Britain, France, Germany, Austria Hungary, Greece, Turkey, Russia and the USA with other nations addable by the user. Also a Ship designer and editor, scenario editor with the entire world usable, a Baltic Sea campaign (in beta with North Sea and Adriatic campaigns to follow) but no fancy graphics. Much less expensive as well.

Better than anything from SES in every way except eye candy IMHO.

^ ^ ^

Looks like a computer version of the tabletop games I've been playing for decades.

It's close, Steve, very close and has something of a miniature feel to it. But not quite there as yet largely because there is no multi-player capability so far.

Some of the tactical features include merchant ships that surrender when no friendly ships are nearby, rescuing survivors (or not, you gain points for doing so however), a gunnery model that reliably produces historically reasonable results, excellent fog of war including delayed scouting reports, fratricide (rare but on occasion), mines and submarines. All player configurable in many respects.

My second wargame was A-H Jutland (the first was A-H 1914) and Steam and Iron somehow recalls nights spent crawling around the floor at midnight trying to extricate the HSF from a trap.

The ability to create custom ships (anything from tiny torpedo boats to 70,000 ton super battlecruisers with 18" guns in quadruple turrets) is almost unique and in sharp contrast to the un-moddable DG and SES Jutland.

Worth a look anyway and no Stormpowered DRM to mess with.

Edit: Just to be clear, when the merchant ships surrender they scuttle themselves rather than changing sides. Still pretty cool though.

Thanks for the suggestions. Hopefully one day they will ease a bit on the files and make it more moddable. Sounds like an interesting game, at first, the lack of 3D graphics took my interest away from it, but the more I read about it, its depth is very appealing. I just wish the price for it would drop( $34 USD I believe) a bit.

Try the demo, its only a short time limited run on half a dozen battles but it gives the feel of the game.(plus it only takes seconds to download)

Downloaded 'Steam and Iron' tonite and have just played a few Scenarios. I love it! Cheers for heads up.:up:

The demo was certainly worth a look and sold me on the game. Yeah It's a little excy but I'm happy to pay the asking price for something independent like this.

I would sadly not recommend buying Jutland. I have the full Jutland package, and while it is generally fun, and looks quite good, there are some serious serious bugs that make it almost unplayable, especially the campaign game.
I have just bought Steam & Iron myself, and it feels much more interesting so far. It is also being developed, which, as far as I can tell, Jutland isn't.

It is a shame to say this, as Jutland had so much potential, but it has been squandered.

I did. It's okay, I guess, but I personally get so much more from building models and rolling dice with my friends. :sunny:

Thanks for the advice. I will try out the demo.

Yes, finally took the plunge on this myself, and just love it. I only hesitated because of the price, but once you start playing it and start designing ships and scenarios, your hooked. I'm a big war plan Red and Orange fan, and have already started designing ships for the 1920 or 30's time period and its great. Lots of potential and as you say still being developed. Maybe we should start a forum out here for dicussion of this little gem, if it would be ok with Neal!

Regards:
Captain Rockwell Torry

Fair disclosure, since I wrote the above posts I was invited to and subsequently joined the SAI Team at NWS so I do not anticipate posting any more on the Jutland forum here.

There are plans in the works to extend Steam and Iron into the post-WW1 era that will probably require new algorithms for gunnery, modelling of flushed-decked carriers, assorted air assets and no doubt other factors as well. Until then development of the Russo-Japanese War version is under way and the North Sea Campaigns' version should be released, hopefully in the not too distant future. Stay tuned for details at the NWS website.

Still the ability provided in SAI to create your own warship designs is a nice bonus and having the entire world for your potential battle space doesn't hurt either.

Have fun with it.