I have the same question. It works without problems? What is your experience?

I'm a bit surprised. Usually people here always ask for realism, but it seems no one cares about the extremely unrealistic 'perfect' spy-log. Making accurate claims was quite difficult and over-claiming happened a lot, especially later in the war when there was little time for confirming anything. Just look for Albrecht Brandi.

I'm wondering whether the mod is too difficult to install or too difficult to use :06: Or is the basic idea too drastic :hmmm: If it is too extreme/difficult one can also just hide the log book and the total tonnage and the player then has to guess only the tonnage, not also the number of ships sunk.

i don´t think it´s that unrealistic. The commanders could not only watch the ships going down, but also hear the sinking sound, when submerged - like in in the game. Torpedoed ships usually sent an sss signal and their names on the 600m wave, so the u-boat commanders could normally identify what they have hitten.

What does happen ingame? If i haven´t already identified the ship when finding the TDC solution, or if i did a wrong identification (or if i shoot from the hip :03:), i will be corrected by the game - but if everything was ok, there´s no need to do the identification twice.

I also doubt about the BdU´s ability to get more valuable information about the scenery than the appropriate commander - besides few exeptions.

So i can see your intention to simulate failures in the commander´s assessment, but imho the game already includes the majority of the points you mentioned.

Hi Leitender,

I agree with you that in the early part of the war commanders could probably in the most cases identify their targets well enough. However, during the later parts I don't think so.

Especially during late-war convoy attacks the log in SH3 is completely unrealistic. You still get the true numbers although you might be more than 15km away when the ships sinks and you have never really seen it (because you made a long-distance shot during night). I think you agree that this is very unrealistic.

Fact is that over-claiming does not exist in SH3 although it happened frequently (just read about Brandi or the T5 claims). I don't know the u-boat's claimed sunken tonnage, but I wouldn't be surprised if it differs by a factor of roughly two from the confirmed sinkings during WWII. Nothing of this is reflected in SH3.

Regards, LGN1

Hi LGN1,

i see, you talk about what Teddy Suhren called a "master shot" :03:: 15km distance during night. Are you able to identify such a target in SH3? Nor do i.

I suppose the real kaleuns would have probably acted in the same way than we: A long distance shot without identification and hopefully getting information through radio. But the first question: How often did that happen? And the second question: Who shall proof / confirm the reports? BdU in Paris? Did you ever read anything about such a procedure?

From what i read in the past, the quality of information which achieved the head quarter, was getting worse and worse when the war was proceeding. I don´t believe that anyone else in the whole Kriegsmarine could get better information than the kaleun "in the open countryside" ("hier draußen im Grünen":03:).

I believe this asking for credibility is a nowadays´ attitude, because we are used to think in that "bureaucratic" way. The then responsibles hadn´t that awareness, that everything had to be "confirmed" else it wouldn´t be regarded as true.

Greetings

Leitender

i think alot of it is to that in the air battles you didn't get credit fir the kill if not confirmed by another pilot or civilian but then again those battles had multiple witnesses most of the time where as the battles in the oceans and seas unles there was a battlegroup there where no witnesses other than the crew

Thanks for your replies!

@Leitender: I think people back then were at least as 'bureaucratic' as people today :yep: As desertstriker has pointed out, at least in the Luftwaffe the confirmation rules were very bureaucratic.

But I agree that (in most cases) it's not really realistic that BdU knows your tonnage more accurately than you do (and could compare them). However, for the mod to work properly one has to encourage the player to report the truth as good as possible. To achieve this, the reports have to be checked somehow and the only available reference is the actual performance/sinkings. So one should regard the difference between your reported values and the actual values as a measure for your knowledge and the details in your reports.

I'm sure BdU and other officers had some feelings about the reports of Kaleuns and how reliable these were. And this is reflected in your 'renown', a quantity difficult to measure (if you play with renown 'on' you will see that BdU hardly ever changes your reported tonnage; only your renown is changed/modified reflecting what BdU thinks of your report).

Regards, LGN1

I think this mod is a dream come true to a player who likes to get a more realistic AI intelligence and it brings a very welcome sense of uncertainty to the game. The mod realises the fact that not knowing what is happening is the key to any sense of real suspense.

However I haven't yet tried it for two reasons: one is that my SH3 is already a very complicated mod soup with some tweaks to the files that are unique to my system. Changing the system would need a lot of time and careful work and there would be risk that I wouldn't be able to do it properly as I make many careless mistakes when I need to be extra careful and pay attention to noticing all the different steps and pasting everything to the right places.

The other reason is my confusion about how I would like the game to react to overclaiming.

I read a book about U-564's patrol in 1942 and the book said that Suhren (the commander) claimed 7 ships and 2 damaged in his report. In reality he only sank 5 ships and the claimed damaged ships were not hit at all. I believe overclaiming was really rampant and I also believe that BdU accepted many false claims. For a myriad of reasons there were many good reasons to believe that more damage was caused than what actually was.

An example of this would be here:

http://www.uboatarchive.net/KTB154-5.htm

Kusch claimed and BdU acccepted 3 sunken, 3 damaged, but in reality the results were 1 sunken and 2 damaged.

To relive history there would also need to be a random chance of getting BdU to accept some ships to my sunken list even when I really didn't sink the ship. But on the other hand I already sink a lot more ships than what would be possible if the game was more realistic.

So in conclusion I think this mod is at the same time one of the best things that has ever been modded into SH3 but also way ahead of its time. We would need a more difficult, more realistic simulation to get the full benefits of this mod.

Don't get me wrong, though. I love the idea and will definitely try this as soon as I get my mod soup to a more stable condition. I'm amazed what you guys with programming skills can do with the game, so thanks LGN1 :salute:

I apologize, LGN1. I don't know how, but I missed this entirely when you first put it up and apparently through all the replies until this latest one. My problem is that currently I'm not playing anything because my computer can't handle some of the big mods I've been wanting to try, like Iambecomelife's MFM. When I finally get a new computer I'll be wanting to give this a try. It looks pretty cool. :sunny:

Thanks for your comments, sublynx & Sailor Steve!

@sublynx: the tweaks of the SH3 files are only required to hide the true data from the player's view. If you do not pay much attention to this data or don't mind getting some accurate data, you don't have to change any SH3 files to use the mod (or you can only change the *_menu.txt entries).

Concerning overclaiming: The mod actually allows and accepts overclaiming up to a certain degree. Only if you exaggerate it, you will be 'punished' (by getting less renown in renown-based mods). The degree of overclaiming is judged by the tonnage and not the number of ships sunk. You can claim 1000 ships and it's ok as long as the total tonnage is close enough to the 'real' tonnage.

As I said earlier, I think this 'punishment' is neccessary to force the player to report as accurately as possible and to avoid large overclaiming. I know the system is not perfect, but the best I can currently think of. If you have good ideas for a different system, just let me know. The 'BdU AI' can be easily changed :D

Regards, LGN1

Hi LGN1!

Congratulations on a great idea, it surely adds a lot of realism to the whole SH3. - after reading about u-boat inshore campaign around UK coast, a lot of kaleuns made some terrific claims based on just the sounds of explosions.
Anyway I tried using your mod, put the JGSME ready map files in the proper mod map, put the executable SH3Log in SH3/data/cfg, enabled the log through JGSME - a lot of conflicts with comannds and Stiebler mod - ran the game and then I get a CTD! What am I doing wrong?

Good hunting!

Did you put the SH3Log.exe in the save game folders? As in .../Documents/SH3/data/cfg.

I understand that if one wants to evaluate the program one does not need to go through with the whole installation process - the exe being the only obligatory file. I didn't do anything with JSGME and the program seems to start alright. I haven't yet had the time to actually make a complete sinking report yet, though.

I did that and tested it straight away.After completing a patrol in the Med, I managed to sink just one Small Merchant, so there was no problem with the confirmation. It seem s that the exe.file does alter the game somewhat, because I cannot see my medals anymore and the renown points are altered also.

Hi igorlikespike,

I'm sorry about the CTD. In order to help you I need more information.

My current understanding:
You installed the mod on NYGM(?) and got conflicts, but continued anyway. You made one patrol without any problems sinking one ship. You finished the patrol, used the exe while in port, and then wanted to start a new patrol. However, you got a CTD when loading the game(?).

Can you please tell me which mod you are using? Can you also please tell me where the game exactly crashes (while loading the patrol, still in the main menu, while loading the 3d part,...)?

Can you also please try to start the next patrol without the jsgme part? As pointed out earlier, this is not neccessarily required (without it no game files are changed at all, only the save-game files).

It would be also great if you could post the latest log_X.cfg, careers.cfg, careers_0.cfg, patrols.cfg, and patrols_0.cfg files from the save game folder since these five files are the only files changed by the exe. A CTD due to the exe must be related to an error in these five files.

Regards, LGN1

Hi, LGN!

Thank you for your quick reply and offerig to help me. I spent a whole of my sick leave playing SH 3 and thoroughly tested the Log mod, and IT WORKS!!! The trick is like Sublynx said is that one needs just to put the exe file in My documents SH3/data/cfg folder. I am using GWX 3. gold and SH 3 commander - so far only problems i get is that when i want to click update personal file in CH3 Commander, the program refuses to open (but I can still acess the logs, crew and nightclub).

Anyway, I'm really glad that mod works fine and I think now is the time to turn that event camera off and focus just on what information can be gathered by hydrophones, visual sightings and assumptions, and put all of that in my new log.

Thank you again :up:

Example of the last patrol log

[Log Entry 0]
Type=0
EntryText=Patrol 7|U-74, 23rd/29th Flotilla|Left at: October 25, 1942, 04:31|From: La Spezia|Mission Orders: Patrol grid CJ88
Date=19421025
Time=431
Categ=0

[Log Entry 1]
Type=0
EntryText=Ship sunk!|Grid CN 55|SS Ada (Tramp Steamer), 2610 BRT|Nationality: Australian|Torpedo hits: 1|Deckgun hits: 0|Comments: General cargo|Cargo: General Cargo. Crew: 31. Crew lost: 14
EntryTitle=November 2, 1942, 11:55
Date=19421102
Time=1155
Categ=0

[Log Entry 2]
Type=0
EntryText=Warship sunk!|Grid CH 84|HMS Leeds United (ASW Trawler), 1100 BRT|Nationality: British|Torpedo hits: 1|Deckgun hits: 0|Comments:|Crew: 38. Crew lost: 23
EntryTitle=November 15, 1942, 22:03
Date=19421115
Time=2203
Categ=0

[Log Entry 3]
Type=0
EntryText=Ship sunk!|Grid CH 76|SS Perterton (Medium Merchant 08), 5250 BRT|Nationality: British|Torpedo hits: 1|Deckgun hits: 0|Comments: General cargo|Cargo: General Cargo. Crew: 52. Crew lost: 7
EntryTitle=November 22, 1942, 14:27
Date=19421122
Time=1427
Categ=0

[Log Entry 4]
Type=0
EntryText=Ship sunk!|Grid CH 76|SS Chippewa (Tramp Steamer), 2610 BRT|Nationality: British|Torpedo hits: 0|Deckgun hits: 50|Comments:|Cargo: Coal. Crew: 30. Crew lost: 2
EntryTitle=November 22, 1942, 15:58
Date=19421122
Time=1558
Categ=0

[Log Entry 5]
Type=0
EntryText=Patrol results|Ships sunk: 4|Aircraft destroyed: 0|Patrol tonnage (claimed/confirmed): 11570/11570 BRT
Date=19421127
Time=258
Categ=0

Interesting. Will download & install.

Hi igorlikespike,

I'm glad that it works now. The jsgme files are just there to hide the information in SH3 (I must confess that I'm always tempted to bring up the in-game patrol log to check whether a ship is sunk :oops:)

If you only change your *_menu.txt file (like explained in my earlier post), you are already hiding most information.

Concerning your problem with the personal file in SH3 Commander: I tried it on my installation and everything works fine :hmmm: And honestly, I have no idea what in the mod could cause such a problem. Have any other players this problem?

Regards, LGN1

I'm looking forward to your disappointing review. :yeah:

Question
 

Just downloaded this log editor, very cool.

Got it to work correctly after a few goes I was stuffing up the times in the log and I couldn't get the SH3 commander file to update my personal file but its all good now.

Just one think I am running with merchant fleet mod and there are some ships like the M30B and M40B which are not in the drop down box but when I look in the stock GWX game they are in there to so I just use the medium merchant instead, am I missing something here, how do I get those ships in the drop down box ?

Cheers
Eastwa

In the instructions it says to copy your EnglishNames.cfg file from your data/Sea folder and paste it in the same folder as the Log .exe. That way the log will read it and all your in-game ships will be in the log.

However, this is not always so. I hope LGN1 realized this. But not all ships are placed in the EnglishNames file, especially if the ship was added individually and the modder forgot to add it in the englishNames.cfg file, or cared not to do so, like some modders have done over the years. So that method that his .exe uses isn't full proof. A better way would have been searching all the ship .cfg files in the Sea folder and grabbing all the class IDs that way, then extending the list from the EnglishNames.cfg file ships and the ones that are not included in that list, that show the ship class instead of the alternate name. Therefore, he would have all ship title possibilities used in the ship sunk patrol log.

But I did not code it, LGN1 did. So it may be better to ask him. Perhaps v0.6 is to be expected.