Students Gunned Down at Montreal College
 

:o At least no one is dead yet, although at least eight are in critical condition. What a sick world we live in.:nope:

12 shot, eight critical, 2 serious, 2 injured. Two gunmen dead, one escaped. Latest news.:nope:

EDIT - Update - Only one gunman dead (actually, the only one present), one innocent woman dead, 20 injured in various degrees. Will continue to update.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...ts-dawson.html

Indeed, it is sad news, I hate this type of stuff. I went to that college just last year for a PHP crash course. This is the second shootout here in Montreal. WTF is happening here?:damn:

Yes very sad indeed.....:(

It's gotta be that damned "DOOM3" game that caused this! That's what they'll be saying anyways! Or Grand Theft Auto, or Bad Day LA. What a sick world we live in when it's so easy to tag computers and the programs they run for the mental problems and instabilities of humans! :nope:

It's clear as day that this guy's mental operating system crashed!

:stare: Yet again an school has been striked by VLLAF

Violent Low Life Armed *******faces.....

and why do they pick on those inocent fellow students :nope: bastards...shooting at people for no reason at all....

Edited first post to reflect changing information.

Jajaja... it's never the action games I love to play. It's also not the action movies I love to see. And certainly not the guns in my parent's household, and the fetish my society is making of them. All what I like has nothing to do with it...

Sounds familiar? Well, rightfully so. The discussion is old.

Truth is: culture and media output both are symptom and expression of the state of human mind and society - and affect that human mind in a feedback loop at the same time. If you are dumb, you do stupid things, that turn your culture into a stupid culture - which makes you even more dumb. Its kind of a codified interaction between society, and individual. If parents steal items in their companies and offices, do not be surprised if their kids steal in the supermarket and are not aware that what they do is not right. If medias teach you from young years on that all your social problems can be solved with pulling a trigger simply, don't be surprised if violance itself becomes an idol, and a focus. If no other and more valuable idols and ideals give orientation during the years a young human seeks orientation and borders that help him to define his structure - don't wonder when he falls for wrong idols, raw messiahs and a way through life that wills to easily pull a trigger. You become what you do and like, you like what you are used to, you are used to what you have done often. The debate of wether it is a given personality structure or a given media causing people to turn into freakheads is pointless. It works both ways simultaneously. that way, people's wishes become limited in scope, and canalised by market strategists. The argument that the market only delivers what is demanded is a foul excuse. In the above mechanism, people are no longer able to want certain things, and are fixated to want other things. There is no freedom of choice if you never have learned the ability of excercising freedom and think it is only doing what you want, without responsebility, only rights: no duties. The degree of your freedom is defined by the number of your options. And you can be made not to be aware of options you have. That way, the market gains control over your behavior, especially consummation and buying behavior.

Not only with video games, btw.

If I were a father, I would have a close eye on what my son or daugther is playing. Mindless violance orgies would be off limits, that means most egoshooters setting place in a war ambient like WWII, Vietnam, or War on terror, and all ego shooters that are only that: shooters. More complex sims, strategy, and others would be allowed. I also would set up a contrast program that is obligatory. If he/she is playing a war-setting-game, he/she also would have to see docus showing the cruel reality of war in all shocking brutality, or reflective movies on the matter as well. Information, not just the display of miltary action, like the many looping warmovies CBS is showing here in germany and that seem to be adverts for how great modern weapns take out this or that kind of target and what a picnic war is if you only wear the right uniform. Realizing what is going on in human minds when they fall for this leader or for that ideology that propagates war. And so on. Scepticism. A doubtful, but awake, alert mind asking questions and accepting no answer untested.

Its about on par with blaming it on the person's religion, and if the shooter happened to be Muslim then this would automatically be Jihad and a "Muslim thing" or an "Islamofascist thing".

Fortunately the police response was extremely rapid and effective, which is exactly where the emphasis and funding should be on preventing/responding to anything of this sort (that and on intel).

No scandium , these days they would call it an ''Terrorist Attack''
:shifty: whatever these shooting guys where thinking its sure it wasnt healthy:down:

Skybird,

I have Been Playing So Called "Shooters" very long now, and still i'm not ( At Least not Totally) Crazy. My Opinion is, if something like this happends, People want to Blame it on something. And thats, very often, the media, inculuding Video Games, Movies ect. And your "Strategy and simulation restriction" won't work anymore, since games like "Company of Heroes" for excample are no different to a shooter in therms of Violence. The only Difference is that you don't pull the trigger.

People who do such stuff are usually Menthaly Crazy. It ain't happend so often anyway. Once in a Few years. People will learn to live with that, like with terrorist attacks.

They can start doing the investigation right here in my house. I have tree young children, 5, 7 and 9. They all play the wildest, most disturbing games around. They watch extremely violent movies often with content not suited for their age, I often use bad words in front of them and all other stuff that a good Christian would freak out about and condemn me as parenthood. Especially if they hear me say to my kids my famous saying, "There is no gods, but only evolution"

Anyway, you get the picture, we must be the worst, right. My kids must be bullies, with bad grades and they are always fighting, and use foul language at school and home, right?

WRONG!

Let's start with the young one, it's a girl, she's five and goes to pre-school. So to tell you the truth we can't really know how she performs in society. So let's skip to the others.

My two sons are so similar they can be spoken of as one.
Home they respect us and are obeisant, point.
At school, they are simply the best, the best grades in class, best behavior and loved by all teachers, nothing less.

The more they know from youth, the better they can confront life on a daily basis and have a good philosophy of life. And grow fair-minded far from any false notion one would want to impose to them.

And to come back to my daughter, I think she's even smarter than the two boys when they were the same age, she catches even faster. So I guess I can predict she is going to glow at school too, behavior and academic wise.

Therefore, it all comes down how we teach our kids about life and how to behave and interpret all types off circumstances. Anyway, it is working for me and my wife, and we are proud of it because we think we will never yield idiots that will start shooting people because they feel rejected a way or another.

In my house, a game is a game, a movie is a movie, and life is reality, plain and simple.

It's nothing like blaming it on someone's religion. Games are recreational, whilst Islam is a way of life.

I wonder why this kind of violence is so specific to the north american continent (usa + canada) ? :hmm:

What are you implying? Do you live in a land where murder does not exist?
Do you have a theory you'd like to share with us?

I was just saying I think the media and parents blame games and movies too often for violence in society. I think it's the parents to blame mostly for the younger kids under 18 that commit these types of crimes and perhaps a few that have grown up a little past 18. Maybe up to 25 even. I think if you could have gone back in time and put a camera in the house of some of these nut jobs prior to their criminal act, you would see that most of their issues were derived from abusive parents that fought a lot in front of them. Dad or mom may have been a bad drunk and possibly abused them (mentally or physically or both). The kid probably turned to playing video games (their happy place) to release their anger. It was their escape from reality and allowed them to release their anger without killing someone in real life. Games are a good thing!

What tends to happen is these kids grow up and their whole life seems pointless. They become jealous of people who go to work happy when they don't. They are jealous of people who have a happy relationship going on. They are jealous of how so and so has more money than them. They are jealous of skinny people, or strong people. Their whole world seems like one lonely and depressing void that they can't escape from anymore. Games don't even seem to help them now because they realize their problems aren't ever going to change. In their mind they escape from reality and then the whole world seems to become like a video game or movie to them because their mind wants to be entertained and happy. Like Leonardo Dicaprio in the movie "The "Beach". He was banned from his peers and just went plain crazy and thought he was Super Mario Bros. or something.

Movies DON'T create psycho's, Movies only make psycho's more creative". -Scream

Once this mental breakdown comes into play they have become oblivious to what is real and fake anymore and I honestly think they just don't know what the hell they are doing. They probably think they have "unlimited ammo or God mode" running in the background and nothing can stop them. There becomes no remorse or consequences to them anymore. If anyone felt like that they would do something crazy. When you feel invincible you would do anything you wanted to do. Of course drugs and alcohol would just add to the fire and intensify their mental lapse, possibly furthering their rage if they were upset about something or someone in particular.


Note:
This brings me back to the weed thread I started not too long ago. I think weed might be the fix to problems like this. Honestly, how many people do you know go on a shooting spree while high as a kite on weed? ZERO! All you want to do on weed is eat, eat, eat some more, and then maybe just a bit more, and then pass the hell out happy as you can be.

Weed could be a good thing and stop violence! :yep:

Bingo! :yep:

Scandium still doesn't get it. :nope:

Periscope, have you considered the next generation? :hmm:

It isn't. You just don't get it on your news sources when it happens elsewhere.

Perhaps because there is nothing to "get". Within any society, no matter its form, how peaceful it is, or how violent it is, you are going to have a certain amount of animal like behaviour; because when you strip everything else away, then that is what you find at our core, that we are animals. All of us. We all have the capacity hardwired into us to commit all manner of crime and mayhem, it is instinctive and it is biological. That most of us, no matter what our religion, ethnicity, gender, age, socioeconomic background, income, occupation, family background, marital status, or any number of other factors don't act as animals while others do is not because of any single variable. That is what you and others like you, who hold yourself up on some kind of pedestal and divide mankind into two categories based on their religion, don't get.

What all those variables can do, however, is find some correlation among certain things and, factoring in cultural variables, explain why certain criminal behaviours are more prevalent in some societies than others, or why one society expresses its aggression in one form and another in a different form. But there are no simplifications. For instance, studies have shown that fewer married men commit suicide than single men (controlling for age, income, and other variables). But so what?

What you don't get is that, though there are almost reasons for everything, they are almost never predictable, easily explainable, or attributable to any one set of variables; even in lifetime identical twin studies where both have the same genes and are raised in identical circumstances, there is considerable variation in the paths these individuals will take. Yet you think you can reduce everything to a religion that is practiced by 1.2 billion people and draw conclusions attributable to the entire vast group from a single variable, their religion, as it is used by a tiny subset of the entire group. That is a joke. Especially when you consider that the number of people killed in North America by our Muslim populations (and we have tens of millions of Muslims in Canada and the US alone), whether immigrant, native born, or whatever, are but a drop of water in the ocean compared to the number of people killed in our countries by members of the predominant religions for all manner of reasons.

The Muslim boogeyman under the bed is just the latest cynical political ploy to keep the population compliant and distracted from the bigger issues, the ones that result in the deaths or exploitation of thousands daily which people have become desensitized to in their need to defeat terror so they can feel secure from it, and neither will ever be accomplished. Terrorism is a tool, not a state or a person. You can no more defeat it than you can defeat robberies or ordinary homicides. You can try and prevent it, and you can capture or kill the perps/organizers, but the problem itself will never go away. It will always manifest itself wherever it can be used by those desperate enough, or fanatical enough, to employ it and who have no legitimate means available to accomplish their objectives. It is as simple as that. And if you think bombins mosques or gassing or sterilizing Muslims, or practicing other more subtle forms of religious suppression and/or genocide, will accomplish anything other than inflaming the underlying illness, then not only do you not get it, but you are part of the problem.

Oh yes, we can just ignore the Islamic campaigns against the dhimmi coming from Mohammedans.

We can ignore the fact that the Arab world has invested more in terrorism, arms exports and exporting Islam than in infrastructure. All "for the good of the people."

We can ignore the fact that Mohammed violently seized power in Arabia.

We can ignore the fact that Islam has made more violent conquests than the Crusades.

We can ignore the fact that Islam has massacred civilians for refusing to convert to Islam.

We can ignore the fact that Islam is bent on World Domination

We can ignore the fact that Islamic clerics have repeatedly called for the destruction of the west in accordance with Islam.

We can ignore the fact that in Islam there is no freedom but what Islamic doctrine dictates.

After all, just ignore the problem and it'll go away.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Quran.htm

And it's true. The fact that the dhimmi exist is a problem for Mohammedans, therefore the "solution" is to kill all the dhimmi.

Ignore the threat, ignore our rights, ignore our freedom, ignore our life and it'll all go away.

Since you're such a vocal advocate of this solution scandium, would you like to volunteer first?