Is this the beginning...
 

....of armageddon, that we are witness to, in the middle east??

Markus

NOOOOOO! I can take Bruce Willis, but not Ben Affleck

I knew there was a reason why they got the shuttle working again recently.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...CLZZZZZZZ_.gif

Agreed. Ben Affleck should be donated for dissection to the Martians.

But there's no armageddon without nukes, in the movie or in the middle east, and none of the players involved have a nuke, hehe.

No, but it will be interesting to see if it draws insurgents away from Iraq. :hmm:

Agreed but Liv Tyler is mega hot in that movie. Oh to be that animal cracker!

Israel has nukes. Not officially, but never the same the matter of them possessing them is something there is little doubt over. They probably don't have anything of the ICBM variety, but from their location you don't ICBMs to flatten the middle east.

Personally I'm a little concerned, just in the geo-political sense for the purpose of this thread, with the escalating situation there. Superficially this appears to be just the usual stepped up retaliation against the Palestians, with a bit of a swipe at Lebannon thrown in for good measure. However, I'm seeing (I may elaborate on this later if nobody else does first) signs that it may expand to include Syria and possibly even Iran (much less likely but I'll get into that later too).

Could this become another 6 day war? Doubtful, Israel is not the new nation it was then and is far stronger while the other players have grown relatively weaker and more fractious, so a repeat wouldn't even last 6 days. The only broader threat lies in the Western powers or Pakistan becoming involved in the conflict, and this I think is a possibly (a small one, but possible) if it were to extend in earnesr (ie: all out war) to Syria and Iran. But who knows, probably it is nothing more than the usual ME jousting. :hmm:

Do yourself a favour and "rent/buy" One Night at McCool's; its a half decent movie anyway, but in it she sets the sexual godess standard. :up: :rock:

I've already seen it. Unfortunately she's an evil sex goddess in that movie. Broke my heart it did...

Nope - read revelation - a lot of crap hasn't happened yet

Don't worry, they're working on it ;)

More idiotic rubbish, as usual, from the same dump.

Israel left every last centimeter of Gaza last summer, at the expense of destroying vibrant communities, expelling 8000 Israelis and rippping apart the country's morale and political system. Since then the Palis have done nothing but lob rockets into Israel town and communities, stock up Gaza with more weapons and munitions than were smuggled in there over the last 40 years, and continually tried infiltrating into Israel to kill our soldiers and citizens.

Israel withdrew completely from Lebanon 6 years ago and foolishly allowed the Iranian and Syrian backed Hazb'Allah to stock 10s of thousands of rockets, kidnap and kill our soliders and fire at them when Iran or Syria need something to distract international pressure on them.

Now, our soldiers are killed and kidnapped by terrorists infiltrating from both Gaza and Lebanon and you stupidly think this is about "retaliation"? :nope:

I'm all for it. I hope Isreal levels the entire area!

-S

Lebanon may be an independent country but either cannot or does not want to stop Hezbollah from firing rockets at Israel. Israel just happens to defend itself against attacks from abroad. IMO they should attack Syria as well, if they have proof that Damascus is supporting Hezbollah.

i agree... as a matter of fact, that was the second thought to run through my mind when i heard of the escalating military actions in the region... this is potentially more serious than a lot of people seem imagine...

fragile and non formal alignments spread across national boundaries, the proliferation of not only nuclear, but biological weapons and other weapons of mass destructive capabilities... add to that the tenuous command and control that exists, plus the obvious rising tensions in the far east...

this may well be the flashpoint that could start the dominoes tumbling...



anyway... my best wishes to all on the forum who are in the region... stay safe and try to remain out
of harm's way...

where is our young female soldier... is she alright...

--Mike

Not yet, certain things must be in place and that's another matter.

Well we all shall see how this one pans out and the long term outcome.

If my memory serves me well, the International Court of Justice, in the Military and para-military activities in and against Nicaragua case, had the opportunity to stress that the invasion of an indipendent country (that time was from the US), even if justified for "humanitarian reason", is absolutely against the international law.
Same principle apply to the so called "prevention war", i.e. start a war to prevent an attack to your country.

IMO this cannot be classified as preventive war.
Hezbollah has been firing rockets at Israel for quite some time and Israeli soldiers have been kidnapped. This, in my book, is an hostile aggression and one way to face an hostile aggression is through military force. Moreover, if there is proof that foreign states (like Iran and Syria) are supporting Hezbollah in their attack on Israel, this would make them equally responsible of the attacks and, IMO, legitimate targets.

The risk that this spreads is still low, imo, as long as Hizbollah does not come up with a new weaponry that does really serious damage to Israeli cities. The two strikes on Haifa and - what was that other city? - may be a hint in that direction, or not, who knows.

I think what they really are after is to create a situation where they must not risk of needing to negotiate with a terrorist organisation in government. I think Israel currently is not willing to attack Syria in an all-out war, nor does Syria wish to be drawn into a war with Israel - they know their equipment is too obsolete to have a chance against the IDF. Iran does not want to attract any further hostile attraction, so thta it can complete it'S nuclear program untouched, and in silence. Currently I think it is most likely that sooner or later this hot issue cools down, and the soldiers (which are no longer the real cause) will return. secret diplomacy is currently on way, Israel has contacted both Iran and Syria via Germany.

If the situation remains hot while Hizbollah demonstrates the ability to strike Israeli city with missiles of this new kind like Haifa and that second city, it is possible that Israel will occupy more or less of Lebanon and tries to annihilate it (the Hezbollah, not Lebanon - there is not much left anyway). If that can be successful must be doubted.

But for the most it all is about avoiding negotations with a Hamas-led government. Olmert also seems to have left a prime directive of Israel, which in the past was to accept prisoner exchanges on the ratio of 1 : several hundreds to get back some of it's people. This directive seems to have been given up, or at least put on ice.

No, there most probably will not be a great-scale international war in the ME, currently. Probability for that is less than 5:95, I think.

Israeli planes succeeded in hitting a Iranian made ZelZal missile launcher in Beirut yesterday, which, after being hit, flew off the launcher and crashed to the ground. This was initially falsly reported as being a downed Israeli plane.
Haifa has had plenty more than 2 strikes. Numerous other cities, towns and villages have been hit, including but not limited to Kiryat Shmona, Nahariya, Tzefat (Safed), Meron, Carmiel, Akko etc.

I was listening to the radio today when the air raid sirens went off live in both Haifa and Tzefat. The results. Media pictures show that the missiles are filled with metal ball bearings, to maximize human fatalities. This is similar to homicide bomber vests.
No. Israel has repeated stated what is need to cease hostilities:

1. Our kidnapped soldiers freed unharmed.
2. The removal of any military or terrorist threat from Lebanon.

If they want to have animals and barbarians in their government, so be it, as long as it's their internal problem.
This is 100% false. Simple test: return the soldiers and watch the calming effect.
Suggested reading: Being Hassan Nasrallah.
Now we're back to Gaza. As if anyone else in the PA weren't terrorists!
It's about time!
Agreed. :yep:

I wrote: "Secret diplomacy is currently on way, Israel has contacted both Iran and Syria via Germany."I wonder if that really is a compliment for Germany. :hmm:

AL,

there were reports here that Haifa was struck by a missile that was no Kassam or anything like they usually throw at you, but a more sophisticated, precise missile from Iranian production. That is what I meant with two major strikes at Haifa and S..... .

What politicians say their motivation is (our soldiers back) and what it really is about (not needing to confernece with Hamas) are two different things. They often are not in congruence. I stick to my assessement.

Hamas is no line-army, but much a guerilla-sewtup. Iraq has shown how successful one can be in fighting such an organisation. History is filled with example where regular armies failed in fighting insurgents, partisas, guerillas - or such factions with a terrorist background. You can shoot Lebanon into pieces. Hamas will still be there. What has changed is that they will hide behind smaller stones. As long as you do not strip Lebanon off all rresidents and population, and then dromb a 1000-pounder onto anything left that moves, you will not wi against Hamas. If there is a lesson to be learned from the constant fighting between Israel and the Palestinians, then this.