A Public Note to Self: LWAMI4 In Progress Issues (HELP ME!)
 

Ok, just because I think I'm starting to lose track of things, I'm going to post here literally everything I am contemplating changing for LWAMI4, and I'd appreciate it if you guys post if we've talked about anything or you read something somewhere that I'm leaving out.

I really appreciate this a lot! Thanks!

Cheers,
David

LWAMI 4.xx In Progress Issues

-Finish Torpedoes (the biggest one)

-Consider changing UUV NB tonals

- Update UUV sensor per Amizaur and jsteed

-fix helo issues: raise dipping alt, update doctrines to shut off sensors, enable proper notrack search behavior, and tune the MH60 sections to prevent undesired sensor and flight search behavior

-Make sure the SLAM-ER and TLAM are functioning 100% correctly

-Add a "FRIEND" weapon evasion exception for the AI

-Prevent AI sub grounding

-Add SLBM's

-Convert some Ohio's to SSGN's

-Convert Stallion to drop APR-3

-Add MK60 Captor Mine

-Fix RBU's and enable them for use against torpedo (perhaps create separate doctrine for RBU equipped ships to maximize effectiveness)

-Adjust the playable aircraft lookouts to detect submerged submarines near periscope depth automatically for the player (yes, I tested this, and it definately works)

-Try to improve Air to Air behavior (and aircraft behavior in general)

-See if there is some way to expand the acoustic/MAD sensor drop contact fix to the non-acoustic/MAD aircraft sensors (not looking good... perhaps aircraft are tracking by satillite relay :p ... but the good news is that aircraft will no longer keep updating submerged targets inappropriately, which is really the absolute most important thing here, surface targets are a very close second, but we'll all have to live with this for now and I'm fine with my satillite theory :p :p)

-Adjust AI TA depths to better fit proper shallow washouts for the player TA's Also, I'm going to give all AI TA's a detection bonus of -2 because I recently discovered that the AI detection threshold in the NSE is actually set at POSID of type and class for the AI, meaning that some contacts aren't acknowledged by the AI until ridiculously late (think three lines on the NB for Akula Imp I against 688i and vice versa, when the human player knows almost right away what he is tracking, or at least has a very good suspicion when it is submerged and hostile).

-Adjust Radar and Fire Control Radar ranges across the board

-Add more flight profiles for ASM's, especially high-flying missiles

-Create separate AAM doctrine to prevent fraticide from fighters against wingmen

-Try to separate radar from active sonar EMCON for surface vessels (not bloody likely for this upcoming version, but it'll be on the table for the next version, along with some more changes focused on the AI)

-Add separate torpedo sounds for electric/non-electric and perhaps some unique torpedo sounds for the broadband sonar (for your listening pleasure... interestingly enough, there are some sounds already in the game audio archive that aren't even used by the current database... sure would be nice for SCS to give us some comprehensive materials detailing exactly what we've got to work with, sheesh... how many millions do I have to pay for some service around here!? :lol: )

-Get feedback on the new nuke speeds (not everyone is going to be happy, I understand that, we'll get through this, together :) :yep: )

-Look at increasing the bearing error for low frequency sonars, notably the TA's

-Add Missile Launch Warning ping to all underwater launched missiles and update SubrocAttack doctrine to take advantage of this (I'm also taking votes on what frequency number the launch warning ping should be on active sonar, right now I'm starting the bidding at 1000hz, can I get one-thousand five?) I might also try again to add a genuine TIW for underwater missiles... I mean, how hard could it really be anyway???

-Update all AI evasion routines, including adding last minute evasion for "dead-duck" AI platforms

-Add a small baffle to the TA directly astern (2-4 degrees on either side as black space, tops) to simulate reported signal loss at extreme angles on the TA, which makes sense, the area with almost no ambiguity should be a dead zone if my understanding of array geometry is correct

-Add ESSM quad-VLS packs to Burke DDG, which will improve their ability to take down threats that make it past the TF's SM-2 and also give them more missiles overall, which is a good thing since the CIWSAttack doctrine now works properly in assigning multiple missiles only to targets that make it past the first fire, or are very close and fast to begin with

-Try to fix UAV and DSRV (no promises for this upcoming version...)

-Fix the E-2 crashing on carrier launches

-Investigate the ECMJammer function and see if we can get some wild wiesles up in this piece (no promises for this version on this one)

Ok, so let me know if I'm missing anything!

Looking at this list, it's like we haven't even fixed anything, but the list of things fixed in 3.02 over stock or even LWAMI 1.00 is just massive, so thanks for your support in this endeavor gents!

Cheers,
David

Many thanks Luftwolf for the work you are doing, and again, even if I have told you previously, I do love your mod with DW. It is giving more thrills in my dives. One thing that I would like to see, but it is not so much related to the new version, is a JSGME (DW) compatible with the LwAmi 4.xx. It works great. Cheers. :up:

Luftwolf,

I have a good friend who states that the helo doctorine is messed up. He says that his testing has consistantly shown that they can ping without slowing down or stoping to drop the sensor.

All in all, I like the list.

We spent hours training our ears to this.

Is this the transient warning that I've been begging for since inception?:rock:

Yup, I've known this for some time. Easy to fix.

The "ping" on missile lauch seems a bit gamey to me. I'm happy with the BB noise as it is, although a true transient alert would be nice (and I know only SCS can do that). I do have a preference for things that work over "good-enough" workarounds, though. And making a sonar ping get transmitted by a missile launch is the sort of thing that just seems sloppy and kills immersion.

Wow, what a list, I'll be honest I don't know what half of that is, but good to see you're working on it.
Keep it up!

Well, considering that I've been hearing about this for some time, that is the need to make some kind of automatic missile warning, it's interesting that this opinion should be expressed.

I'm not really the one that has been pushing for this really... I'm fine with how it is now like 70%.

The thing is that we have the TIW warning, so not having an automated missile warning seems to be inconsistent with this. Perhaps I will make another attempt at giving a genuine TIW warning on missile launches. :hmm:

I agree that it's inconsistent that we don't have one, but I've always believed that if you can't do something right....

An interesting undertaking. Here's hoping it works. What if the ping sound effect was substituted with a launch sound effect? Would that be obtainable. The missile launches, gives a ping (which because of the Sound assigned actually sounds like a launch transit) and then goes airborne.

Question is... how do we replace the ping with the sound of our choice?

Would it be possible to spawn a really loud torpedo when a missile is launched, and to make it disappear again after the missile leaves the water?

If I could get the missiles to fire torpedoes if fired underwater and not fire torpedoes when fired above water, this would be easy.

Here is the problem. The AI simply does not fire at nothing. I can't get the missile to fire the torpedo unless they have a track.

Here's where it gets interesting.

For SUBROC missiles, this is no problem. Since they are classified in the database as a "snapshot" weapon, the target track is provided to them immediately at launch, so they start life with a NEWTRACK from the NSE, meaning they will launch the torpedo. The problem is, they already have a torpedo, and the weapon-selective <Attack "[weaponname]"> command doesn't work for weapons launching other weapons, only Firebest, and it seems the SUBROC missile wants to fire its actual torpedo payload in most situations first.

The problem for non-subroc missiles is that they have no track when they start life.

The way this solution is shaping up, for non-subroc missiles, I would have to give a very short range visual sensor to detect the launching platform and use the IF tgtsource $= "visual" THEN Firebest ENDIF conditional (very similiar to the wirewatch features put into the wireguided torpedoes). Also, I could use a depth-based conditional for either the missile to fire or for the dummy torpedo to simply dissappear if fired above the surface before hitting the water. I think this can simply be added over top of the relevant missile doctrines without any issues, but I could always be wrong of course.

For subrocs, I dunno... I'll probably have to tweak the database, but its pretty risky, I'd have to be pretty confident the actual torpedo would never get launched.

From a coding standpoint, the missile ping on launch is SOOO much more elegant, and would achieve exactly the same freaking thing, Molon. I really like the idea of changing the ping sound to something else BUT i have found no way to control the ping sound and that other platforms share the same ping... I mean, ideally, I could just have no sound at all, and simply allow players to get a newtrack from the active intercept autocrew, which I assume everyone uses (cough cough the GNSF needs get with it on this...).

In this case, I have two options that both suck, mostly. But if I could make either one work the way we want without messing anything up, it'd be pretty good I think.

Let me see... I'm a bit burned out from the torpedo work (don't worry), so I'm happy to do something in which my expectation of success is not quite as high.

Cheers,
David

Ok, the "best" overall way that I have found so far is to give it an active sonar sensor and delete the ping sound from the sfx.agg so that it is reported strictly by the Active Intercept Autocrew.

Now this has a big problem associated with it. The game sound engine is constructed in such a way that subs, ships, and torpedoes are assigned their own ping sounds that can be edited individually, and then everything else left over gets assigned the generic ping sound. SO... deleting the ping sound for the missile also means no ping sound for any helos or buoys... which is a BIG BIG "hell no!" for doing it this way.

I also am beginning to agree with molon... how big of a pain in the ass would it be to hear a pinging every time you launched missiles. Yikes!

So, the only way left to go is to try to add some kind of TIW (which is automatically not reported to the launching platform, even if the torpedo is launched by a weapon launched by the launching platform)... and this means getting messy. You have no idea how hard it is to try to get missiles to launch torpedoes at nothing! :damn: :p

Ok, if the issue is so complicated to resolve for you, why don't we ask SCS to implement a TIW message for missile launches directly into a future patch.
We'll wait for an official patch, and you go on modding DW without loosing your sanity ;)

I don't ask SCS for anything... I merely hope to catch crumbs falling from their table.

And this mod work is actually helping to KEEP me sane, at least the problem-solving aspects of it. I can live without the grunt work... that's what drives me up the wall, and it's also why I don't work in an office as a cubicle rat keyboard jockey.

Hey I think I've got this one worked out too now.

LWAMI4 should have a genuine TIW message for underwater missile launches (I'm about 75% sure this is good to go).

Cheers,
David

Ok, as a followup, I have the Subrocs working perfectly, they give a nice TIW message when launched and still work perfectly (at least as far as I can tell).

The other missiles are proving to be a bit of a problem. I'll get back to you on this.

Cheers,
David

Missile Sound Issues
 

Hi, I know I am by no means any kind of expert on this kind of subject, but if you are talking about what 'sound effects' to give the launch of missiles other than subrocs, (ie in vertical launch tubes), wouldn't it be possible to produce a loud 'Boom' sound, with extra bass factored in, so it is audible from a distance?

Correct me if I'm wrong please, but I was lead to believe that a vertical launch tube (be they TASM, TLAM, or SLBM) produces such a noise due to the way that the missile is initially propelled from the tube...

Surely such a noise would cause 'reverberations' which would be easier to locate in BB sonar once audibly detected? Doesn't 'hull popping' noise also carry over some distance in the same way?

I apologise again if my ignorance has been a waste of your time...:oops:

It's a pity that there is so much problems with getting missiles to launch dummy torpedo... I didn't anticipated that (because I didn't try that :-/).
And in fact I'm still not sure it would be best solution... or maybe active ping is better ?
While ago I tried to set passive sonar as counter detect for torpedo seeker, and unfortunately the ping sound was there (it's not generated by active intercept (because nothing showed on it) but IS generated only in active intercept working cone... grrr weird as usually... And nothing on passive of course.

The active ping on launch is elegant "engineer" solution, but not elegant from a player point of view... active pings... from every missile... someone that didn't read the mod readme (and there are such people :-? question is do we care about them ? ;) unfortunately I think we should...) would be totally puzzled.

(Same for passive enable and active enable in new torpedo control mod. It happened to ME :o personnaly to forget about "first enable is passive enable" after not playing some time, and I was wondering where is the active ping and why torpedos are not seeing my sub... :oops: The important things that are totally different from stock DW have to be written big and bold on the beginning of the read me or better placed in separate "absolutely MUST-READ!!!!.txt" file.

edit: the torpedo speed is good indication of ADCAP state - active or passive. but you have to switch to nav screen to check that and would possibly not be good indicator for slower (TEST-71) torpedos...
maybe I should make in to simply switch to active after second enable, but first preenable for a moment (red V disappears in wepctrl screen) and then enable again in active mode (red V shows again) ? is it worth it ? anyone had problems knowing if second enable worked ? I personally had to click it few times in Playtest mod to enable it active, but maybe it's only for me?)

The pros are many - solution is simple, gives new track (with special designation? were you saying something like that?), and looong range ! The thing againstb it is only one - the ping sound...
For dummy torpedo and TIW message - the automatic message by crew similar like when detecting torpedo launch... more "natural" solution...
but only now I asked myself - what with sub launched ASMs and LAMs ?? Should they give Torpedo In The Water message to player ??? :o Subrocs are a threat similar to torpedo (and they drops it eventually) but ASMs and LAMs are not threat and have nothing to do with torpedos at all ! :-?
Second thing against it is lower range (only 20nm limit like for TIW messages, and missile launches are much louder events) and the fact that player on russian sub could have hard time sometimes to say if it was a torpedo launch or missile launch reported, as they have no waterfall and sonar history, if they don't see the missile spike in time they just don't know what it was...
And at last - it's complicated and very unelegant from "engineers" point of view.

So actually I really don't know... I used to think that TIW message would be better and more natural, but now have realised many arguments against this solution and simply don't know :hmm: , but honestly I'm closer to "active ping" solution... only with good description in a "must-read!!!.txt" file, among few other things.

Hm, a poll ? ;) With arguments for and against each solution clearly described ?

LW: With regards to your parenthetical, GNSF has made active intercept standard at least on a temporary basis, and it might already be permanent.