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Black swans
Are these guys a world to there own or what?.They can't be Elite because GW v1.0 suppose not to have elite just vet's.
But like clockwork any convoy with Black Swans in it and I attract them like flies to sh*t. Am in early 43 January these bastards can detect me from nearly 2800m nobody else can whats going on? I just worked out run silent run deep (shallow approching a convoy) gets you killed with them idiots about. I don;t know how you guys do it but if I don't find an answer soon am going to take out all escorts seems a waste of 5 or so but advice is appriciated Im also approching the convoy head on. |
You noticed that too huh?
Same here but I am finding them just as capable of locating me in the spring of 1940....but so far their depth charging is something less than competent. They do have a nasty habit of pranging my periscope though when I pop it up anywhere near a convoy. |
Strange...
I'm in October, 41 (15 patrols) and I've never been pinged like that before. I wish I were. For me GW escorts are no threat at all. I never got killed by them in 15 patrols. In stock, that number was like 5, 6. (I'm playing dead is not dead until May, 1945) Damn, I wish brit dds were more deadly. |
SH3 = no challenge at all (so far)
When I played Silent Service II I had to dive deeper right after firing shots to earn more time to escape from escorts, but in SH3 I watch my shots score on peri and get away at leisure. This is not cool. (I'm playing GW 1.0, everything on except manual targeting) |
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Kb |
Yeah I hope so. I want them to kill me for a change.
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I agree with KB. I see lots of posts about how the ASW ships suck. I just don't see it. My guess is these people
-- haven't played later in the war -- use mods that affect the capability -- hang out on the surface with F12 and order rudder changes to counter every move by the ASW surface ships. I say play in '43-'45 with no externals and there's no way you can say these guys suck at ASW. And about those Black Swans... they bring a world of hurt in a hurry. They lay out a vicious pattern of depth charges. They are the ship I fear most in SH3. |
-- haven't played later in the war
No, I haven't -- use mods that affect the capability GW 1.0 is the only mod I use. -- hang out on the surface with F12 and order rudder changes to counter every move by the ASW surface ships. Gee, I wish escorts were so deadly that I had to resort to that kinda stuff you talkin about. I just hope they get smarter in 43-45. |
Anyone that wants their convoy attacks more scary just PM me an email address and I will send you a modded GW RND.mis file that has my escorts. Nothing less than a veteran and 2 to 3 times as many as the GW RND which is, IMO, the weak link in the mod.
They modded the rest of the RND but left the IC as they were and by now they are dated and way too easy. I would guess 4 out of 5 that use this RND will quietly put the old safe one back and not admit it (Girly Men they would be!!). I will also send you a Black Swan updated roster to include the early Sloop classes (BS was a sloop not a frigate) so you will see more of these sloops when they were used most, in the early years. Sloops are slower, wider and less armed than DDs (Except for A/S weapons) but have better habitability for long convoy escorting as they carry enough fuel for the whole trip where as corvettes and DDs had to leave and refuel. Because they also have DC throwers they have 3 times the DC pattern when they come after you in latter years than the DDs. This will also be true of the US Lend Lease DE and the River class DE (The River is wrongly named as the model is a C Class type that was modified for convoy escorting) come into the game with their DC throwers. I can not beat my RND file, it is too hard. But, it forces me to do things real Kaleuns had to do like attack from outside and hope for a hit that disables something use a homi fish to hit the close DD and hope to get away before 2 or 3 others get my scent then if I survive find the disabled merchant and get a kill. The present career started off with me sinking a US DD as I was mauled. I was saved by the Homing fish but limped back to France with a 3.9 hull integrity. I have 69K tons in 5 patrols and have made it out of France to Bergen for only the second time in over 20 careers (although this had one less mission because my repairs took so long from the 3.96 thingy) You will not survive long with typical sneak into the convoy tactics using this RND. There are simply too many escorts (although way less than real life). This is the GW RND.mis file except the convoys have more escorts (and an occasional cruiser and escort carrier). It is not available as a download. Wulfmann |
That sounds like total hell. I have enough trouble as it is. However, I have to say it's kinda tempting, in a sick sorta way.
Kb |
I have to say that with GW 1.1 ASW is not good. I'm on patrol #16 and I've only had one close shave, never ever came close to 16 patrols in the stock or selectively modified setup. Currently I'm cruising along inside a convoy firing eels left and right, the escorts are nowhere near me and seem to be depth charging something well away from me. I've hardly seen any aircraft either. April of 1944 and I keep thinking it should be harder than this.
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That is amazing....I'm using GW 1.1/NYGM/UC and my results are just 180 degrees from that. Raise the scope inside a convoy and the merchants start banging away with their deck guns..lucky to get a snap shot off before it is destroyed....and every escort is homing in like they were tied to me with strings. I consider myself lucky if I get within 1500 meters of a convoy by running silent....ahead slow...at below 100 meters....then rush to periscope depth and get off a salvo shot before I crash back down and spend the next hour dodging DC attacks. And it is only summer '41. I'm finding it nearly impossible to do an end run around a convoy then lie in wait for it to approach so i can sneak inside the screen. The escorts even in early war pick my boat up on ASDIC from 1000's of meters away. All of that isn't even mentioning their ramming skills :nope: Only in heavy fog can I cruise on the surface inside a convoy, hoping for a snap shot as a target comes out of the fog bank, and even then it is a mighty dodgy thing. You never know when an escort will appear and start firing at point blank range. |
Remember, if you use TC above 256 the radar aircraft will not see you, it is a bug. In 1943 you should dive at least every other patrol grid or more from AC or you are cheating reality.
Sem. go to 13 meters when you dive instead of the default 12 for periscope depth. Keep you peri so low it is under the water more than on top. They will not see you this way. After 1941 radar prevents you from being on the surface no matter what the weather. BTW, my RND is tweaked to reflect what I have read on this subject not just a sick desire for toture although sometimes I wonder!! It can be frustrating but when I read Iron Coffins for reference, what I have mimics that more, IMO. I may not survive many patrols but when I escape 3 or 4 escorts after a 4 hour pounding I am more satisfied than running up and unrealistic score! I attacked an Arctic convoy tonight in Oct 1944 out of Bergen. It was raining with fog. I heard a wierd motor and suspected it was an escort carrier so went away from the convoy and fired a spread of 4 fish from hydrophone bearings. All missed. I turned and fired a homi at her and disabled her. I waited until the convoy disappeared and finished off the Bogue class and finished my first ever patrol out of Bergen with a U-Boat that escaped France after D-Day. I also ignored my grid orders or I would likely be starting over tommorrow! Patrol 6 tommorrow. I am nervous! Wulfmann |
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Also - I've never encountered an Arctic convoy - i really want to. I've been based at bergen, and my patrol orders have never taken me north, but rather out to the atlantic. What grid co-ordinates do you hunt for arctic convoys? KB |
KB, I lurk north of the patrol grid areas where the convoy routes converge on the map. I just hang around there until one shows up.
Last night I had three all in different directions. I attacked the carrier which was out side the convoy and disabled her and waited for the escorts to leave, finished her off and went after a convoy north of the other and sank a liberty from out side and disabled another large merchant which I hid under until all the escorts departed, about 2 hours. One carrier and two large merchants and still alive is better than an obituary and a couple more ships. Shooting farther out is asking for some luck but good procedure improves your luck. By firing at a distance and moving laterally the escorts will be looking where you are not and at this stage finding you makes your chances slim with all these A/S ships My assigned patrol was CG so I ignored it. We must remember our changing bases does not change our grid options and that is an unrealistic order both for range and what would have been a real deployment for that time. Lose renown and go north. In fact if you head way up east of Bear Island you can move outside aircraft range and just hang out until something shows. Later in the war I believe I should protect my crew and do max damage without being stupid. Wulfmann |
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Kb |
I was referring to north of Scotland outside the grid area where the two different convoy routes converge. North of AF 18-19 (I think from memory)
I missed a convoy as I arrived there tonight and waited for weeks, literally, until another came. This also had an escort carrier which I set a trap for then turned quickly and fired into the convoy. A DE was moving on me from the far outside which allowed me to isolate him for a Homing fish and I very luckly disabled him and not sink him. I only sank one cargo and the Bogue and with the other escorts pissed off I made a fast line to hide near the disabled DE. I almost made it before getting hit hard by one can which dropped me to 66 and serious flooding but before they could line me up for the kill I got next to the DE and waited for about 3 hours while they eventually left. I moved off, sank my protector and headed for Bergen and repairs. This means I am now ready to sail on patrol 7 in Jan 1945. That means better fish as well! I am hoping to finsih the war but that may be 2 or 3 patrols and the allies get another boost so I must be more carefull than aggresive. No problem as The Admiral is likely packing to get away from the Russians and will not notice too much! Wulfmann |
Dude i am having mad trouble with NYGM Mod in the meditereanean right now. Its 1943 and i tried to attack a small convoy at night, 1 flower corvetter and 1 small merchant. I had to run all over the place to avoid the flower who kept sensing me around with radar, luckily i am faster than a flower corvette and ran around for about an hour until i got a shot in on that small merchant. With the merchant disabled i ran away for about an hour and came back to see the flower gone and i finished him off with my deck gun.
But the real doozie was when i fired a full salvo at a passagner liner in a medium convoy escorted by 3 destroyers. 2 of them went after me after i sent that passagner liner to the bottom when ALL 4 hit :rock: :rock: but i paid for it for about 2 hours of cat and mouse. While the depth charges didnt cause any damage, they shook me up a bit and scared me quite often. I dove deep and silent and they still found me, but finally gave up after about 2 hours. 1 escort stayed but he couldnt locate my sub at 230m. But my second attack on that convoy was foiled quickly at like 4000m when the v&w turned around an raced toward my sub. Then another 30 minutes followed until i got away and continued on my patrol. So far 1st patrol Feb 1943 20,000grt + sunk in med, that is an extremely good patrol and i doubt they will get better. Planes have been hounding me west of Israel like crazy and im still very far away from home. I dont know how ppl can say "oo its so easy" its annoying, i thought the same way until i played later in the war, then i realized i was a big fish in a very small pond. With lots of sharks and eagles wandering around my small pond. Wulfman id like to try your RND. Sounds a bit unrealistic tho, but i think im misunderstanding. Is it more difficult in the beginning of the war too when it shouldnt be to hard? I understand if its nearly impossible late in the war because, it was.. PM me or something |
My RND is more realistic in the sense of historical comparison. Early is still much easier but not the impossible to be killed idea that persist.
My RND is only modded with the convoys. the entire rest is GW. They actually redid the rest of the RND but did not update the IC in their RND and that is the only part I modded. I added the more likely escorts and in more likely numbers. But, in real life 1944 convoys could have 20 escorts so I hardly went that far and even the best escorted convoys will not have more than 10 (all veteran) The early convoys will have sloops (frigates in SH3 and trawlers (trawlers are 4 rated elite but have no asdic). In real life U-Boats were sunk by convoy escorts but in 1943 they became hounded and hunted. From 1943 on the convoys have mostly DEs which is real. (Hunt class are really DEs and unfortunately they are not in SH3 as they should be a main escort) You can still easily attacked convoys early with this RND but only if you act correctly, stroll in and don't pay close attention and you will die in 1939. That is more realistic. I am reading Iron Coffins for the third time in 4 months so I can keep comparing my game experinces with Herr Werner. In 1939 and 1940 U-Boats were lost at a rate on one every two weeks. In 1941 they lost 3 per month and in 1942 they lost 8 per month or almost 2 each week. It was much worse later but in SH3 there is not the real danger early that was possible when attacking a convoy. I believe I address this. PM a email address if you want to try it but expect convoy attacks to be much more dangerous. Wulfmann |
Wulfmann, Iron Coffins isnt exactlly a historically accurate piece of reading material. Herr Werner exagerrated and even made up a lot of things. Look up the history of Ottokar Paulsen and the other Uboats he was apart of. Half of the attacks he describes did not happen. He never sunk a confirmed ship (or so history tells) etc. But i WOULD like to try out your campaign RND since it seems like u got convoy escorts right. Im annoyed when early in the war i see these uber DDs escorting convoys when the damn DDs havent even been comissioned yet! But nowadays i play NYGM and the Mediteranean so i dunno how ur RND will merge with NYGM since its from GW. You should try NYGM tho, its definately a bit harder and i have had some exciting moments trying to escape Destroyers
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