Russians alleges British of spying
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4638136.stm

And in other news, Russian gas pipe lines get destroyed

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4637034.stm

Is the red storm rising?? :-?

Before anyone jumps on, i don't think it is but could make for interesting speculation ;)

Pipeline explosion, I don't think that was the Russians.

The spying thing. Possibly, never stopped really, just someone screwed up, or got lucky, or there is a mole in UK Intel.

I agree with that.

Why would you stop though? Got to keep an eye on them frisky chaps

Perhaps The Fifth Man is still in place? :o

Yeah M8s,
You have to keep an eye on those commies!
:hmm:

They are no longer commies though. Gotta go to Pyongyang to find true commies.

EDITED for security reasons

Sssssh, do you want to blow your cover?! :huh:

edited just for you

Yes.

:up: :up: :up:

Russia is an enemy for the west, it's been like that since WW2 and it is still so villified. And Russia is still being waged war upon it by the west, and the same war that it has been losing for years - the information war. Say anything bad about Russia (the gas pipe explosion) and people believe it. Anything good, or decent - and people think it's a lie. It's been like that for some time, and always will be probably till some huge global war that will not be an information one (russia usually can fight there pretty good, as opposed to PR). The fact that many people today already believe that it was the US that won the WW2 is perhaps the best example how russia lost this information war. Never mind the fact it lost half of all casualties (those are now dismissed as Stalin's own purges).



Are the brits spying? If I can put a bet on that, I'd put the house on it. Of course they are. Always have been. All I hope is that Russia is spying in UK as well, that's about the only way they can go about it really (another way you can do it, is spy on your own people, but let's leave that to the leader of the free world, the beloved by some here Bush!).

The gas pipe though - that's just hillareous - I'm totally amazed how the rest of the world is actually listening to what that large glovepuppet Saakashvili is saying (you should hear his interview to Reuters - you'd never think it's a country leader talking...)

A tape recorder in a Styrofoam rock? Come on ‘Q Branch’ can do better! :lol:

Where is Major Boothroyd when you need him!
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/172...lewelyn0dy.jpg
(RIP Desmond llewelyn :( )

Is Russian really an enemy to the west? I dont think so. Behind close doors CIA & KGB spys might of had a shoot out etc during the cold war., but russia has never been a threat. Just fear of the other. Whos the real threat today?

The real threat is thinking that the projected threat is the real one.

I definitely agree with Type941 there, though I'd add that the Western dislike of Russia goes to well before World War II - just that the global influence of the country hadn't been very tangible until that the time. That said, I'm perfectly convinced that there hasn't been a time in history when the West actually trusted Russia.

In many ways, Russia has been very slowly sliding back towards old habits. Witness the military sales to rogue regimes, the creeping control of the Russian government favorites in politics, business and media, etc.

Personally, if the trend continues, Russia will find itself to be its own worst enemy.

Pravda Ru is close to Putin and Kreml, their version of the incident. Next Putin will sign the law to ban non-governmental organizations in Russia..

• http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/88/...81_spying.html

Interesting article about why US foreign minister interferes to Russias "internal affairs". :doh:

• http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/88/...ndoleezza.html

And make a good effort to prove that a man that attacked a synagogue wasnt a anti-semite, it was the reason of a video game :roll:

• http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/87/347/16738_Jews.html

This is the type of agenda that Putin (dictator) represents. And they get it out very well as they have allmost total control on the media.

And if you dont know what they are trying, i can tell you. Russia wants to prevent a more unified EU. EU as a one entity with its own foreign and security policy is seen as a threat, a potential superpower and eurasian rival (they love geopolitics). Their method is, to make Europe so dependent as possible from their oil, gas and other resources. To establish bilateral relations to the EU member countries, especially the big ones. Thus undermining the goal for one foreign policy for the EU. Finland has protested about these relations especially to Germany and Italy. They have both created a strong dependency for Russia and have had very personal relations to Putin. (Schröder went to Cristmas church with him, adopted a doughter from russia, Putin has spend holidays with Berlusconi..) They use these relations to have Europeans look the other way when it comes to their what they feel are their spheres of influence. Bellorussia (they have a union) , Ukraine (they extort and try to destabilise this country) and the Caucasus (use the war on terror as an excuse) are clearly seen to be strategically important. The joining of the Baltic countries to NATO was a bigger blow to the russians than people in the west generally understand. Finland borders over 1600km of common border with Russia. But look at the map, Kola peninsula (most of their nukes) and St. Petersburg (biggest military manufacturing area) are a just of the border. In the long run they want to emerge again as a competitor with US like USSR was. So they play these games with China (wich they hate) , Iran , North Korea or anyone to weaken and disperse United States. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck! (shoot it) WAKE UP PEOPLE!

ah, the russian hater Happy Times. What good are you for a non-biased discussion? :huh: :rotfl:

Yeah, it's been much more than 70 years that the west hates russia and all that land.

It dates back to roman empire really - a disgusting, barbaric nation that was decayed to the core (ROME) with its gladiatorial games, it's bare arse army and absolutely corrupt government. It was beaten by these 'barbarians'. That's when it all started really. the 'holy roman empire' and the split with the east, all that great stuff. It wouldn't hurt to know that before the mongol invasion, Kiev Russ was known as land of cities, and many monastries in russia were producers of all sorts of weaponry for the western europe (gun powder units). It also wouldn't hurt to know that Ivan the Terrible was not the monster he's portrayed but actually introduced these to russia (before the well known Peter the Great legends tell us):
- introduced the jury to the court system
- free elementary education (in churches and monasteries)
- medical quarantine on borders
- first regular russian army and one of the first war uniform in the world (Strelec)
- stopped the tatar skirmishes for good
- made the society more or less equal (there was no tie to land in the sense it existed in europe at the time where - and peasant's children were free to do what they want)
- forbid slavery work
- expanded country's territory in 30 times
- had a few 1000 percent growth in wealth of population
- noone was killed without trial and the number of actually 'repressed' was about 5000 people

This is 1500s by the way...

all of those are documented in many sources, i'm just not putting them down as the word 'Sudebnik Ivano Groznogo' would tell jack to majority here.

And now here's the fun part - you won't believe any of this just because you don't think it's possible and you still treat russia as this dumb, naive, drunk nation of beggars and theives, ruled by a spy dictator. That bit about Ivan the terrible is one of the things people aren't familiar with - to many, his just a moron who went mad and slaughtered thousands of his own people (must be the name!).


Have fun with the history. Have at least an open mind, otherwise you'll end up hating everyone who dares to say differently (like Happy Times = an ironic nickname really). :roll:

NGOs (one of which involved in the scandal is Moscow Helsinki Group.. :stare: )... Well, Britain will shut up about those now, that's why this scandal is coming out now. Britain criticized russia for it - and now Russia shows Britain sponsoring these that potentially are against the russian government. Democracy is fantastic for the stupid oppressed people because it's very easy to wave infront of them and convince them that life will get better. Just doesn't work that way. Look at Georgia with an idiot for a leader, and Ukraine with a guy whose wife is american - what kind of country loyalty can he hace? :) He didn't even dare to get out yesterday to that same square where he was elected president 1 year ago - the people might get 'angry'. ;)

And than think of what the US is doing in South America. it's kind of secluded from us in Europe, but the way US is doing its business there is most fascinating...