For airforce fans - dogfight video
 

http://rapidshare.de/files/11582367/DOG.WMV.html

It's just 1,98 MB.It is real engagement 2 on 2 ,greek F-16s against turkish F-16s,maybe in 1996.The view is from the HUD of one of the greek pilots.It is alleged that this happened when turkish F-16s harassed a Greek C-130 on its way on Cyprus,which was carrying the Greek MoD on visit to the island and Greek F-16s were sent to intercept the Turks.The dialogue between the pilot is:

- I am in the "scissors" ,i am behind him.

-George,inform them,because i don't have course.

-George,i am at 1mile,at the waypoint.

-And i am at 2miles,i have the one of them.

-George again,do you have the other one in front of you?

-Correct

-Right wing and a bit on the rear,i am scrambled.

-I see you too.

-Yes,at Fox 3.I willl **** the ****

-He is "kill" from time now.He is trying to flee.

-George we are continuing the engagement,tell them.

Nice. I liked those scenes at the beginning where the other guy would just flash by in front of the screen - seemed very disorienting.

He got him clean though. Would've been so dead if an actual missile was fired :dead:

Yes,it's faster than in game simulators...You can also hear the pilot's breath accelerating while pulling the Gs.


]

Well,these dogfights happen almost daily over the Aegean,so our pilots are used to control their nerves and don't fire. Once a pilot did fire and one Turk pilot died.Check the 8 Oct 1996 entry(Mirage 2000 shot down turkish F-16):

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_mishaps_airforce-TUAF.html

The rumours say that the pilot (Grivas) had been involved in multiple scrambles that day and after his last landing he said "I swear,if they come again today,i ll shoot them down for real".And then they called him again for scramble and he indeed fired.
According another version,the turkish pilot fired upon him with the gun and he replied by firing Magic.



And there are more dead pilots during harsh trainning or one Greek Mirage F-1 pilot was engaged with Turkish F-16.The Mirage F-1 is one generation older and in his attempt to shake off the F-16 he crashed on to the sea and died.

Scroll down this page where there are 2 photos of F-4E flying just a bit over some olive trees :

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_365.shtml

Unfortunately,some years ago,one such flight had engine failiure.The pilots didn't eject because a village was in danger.They stayed in and managed to avoid all but the last house of the village where they crashed onto the second floor of it ,killing 2 girls that were studying.

These are deaths of an undeclared war.Unfortunately we have to train better than them,because we can't count on quantity.

Fun video to watch.

For airforce fans - dogfight video
 

Impressive video.
Still today?
I guess then you could say "Fortunately" as well...

Can't get the file as that rapidshare is playing up. Does it like Firefox or not?

Anyway, do these incidents still happen today? Do any other nations get 'caught up' in it? I'm just wondering what the British and US stance on it would be seeing as the Turks let us use thier bases for The WAr on Terroism.

The strangest HUD video I ever saw was I believe one US F15 smacking into the canopy of another way up there.

Talk about close!

Yes.The situation went critical since 1996,when we almost went to war for a 2 uninhabited rocky islets,called Imia.The Turks used that to raise dispute over about 600 greek islets initially,later dropped to about 150.They call them "gray zones",because according to them ,they are of dubous sovereignty (they discovered it 80 years after the delimitation of the borders).Funny is that there loads of foreign and even Turkish maps in internet showing the islands as greek,but that's what you have to put up with...The EU Parliament at the time voted a resolution:

http://www.hri.org/MFA/foreign/bilateral/europ.htm

But politically,the interests are too high,so apart wishes ,there were no political conseguences for Turkey.There is a whole array of issues with Turkey,personally i would have expected a bit more solidarity from the EU on that,instead of just opening its doors to someone who has land claims on a EU member,but world isn't moved by ethics.So,yes,it still goes on today,interceptions are an almost daily event in the Aegean,forward greek bases have 3 minute readiness aircrafts in daily basis and in periods of "high traffic" a pair of aircrafts is waiting with the pilots inside the cockpit.


Yes,but it is a shame to have men killed in peace time.Here is a list of "air victories" between Greeks and Turks and as you can see they go back a long time.EPA or MAH are Greek.THK is turkish.THN is turkish navy.CGN is Greek Cypriot National Guard.

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_299.shtml


I use Firefox and works for me.First you must click on "Free".Then you must wait for the countdown to end ,insert a 3 digit code (that shows you) for verification and then you should be able to dl.


Yes,they do.The other nations as shown above limit themselves to "wishes",because Turkey is a vast country where many EU countries have factories for cheap manufactoring costs and so nobody wants to piss Turkey politically.

In real terms of being caught up in the middle,i know of 2 incidents.
1)An Israeli C-130 was partecipating in landing practice to Rhodes airport and was intercepted by mistake by the turkish aircrafts ,because they thought it was Greek.For this there is the news in the internet too.

2)A French Mirage2000 squadron was in the central Aegean as part of exchange of squadrons and got attacked by turkish aircrafts that thought they were greek Mirage2000.This was written in greek specialized press and the French pilots were stunned to having being part of such unexpected experience.


The US and British stance is pro-turkish,exactly because Turkey is strategically important for USA's policy in the ME and because Turkey is Israel's best friend in the region.

Basically,Turkey has a syndrome of the post WWI Germany.She feels "suffucated" in the Aegean and since 1974 has decided to start aggressive policy.Unlike Cyprus,we are not unarmed (the contrary),so instead of pursuing their goals militarily,they try to take operational control over the eastern half of the Aegean.In 1974 they issued arbitrarily NOTAM 714 (Notice to Airmen) declaring the east half of the Aegean part of the Istanbul FIR (Flight Information Region).Practically any aircraft entering that space,should contact Turkey for instructions and permission.Greece ,that which was the legal operator of that area (Athens FIR),issued a NOTAM declaring that space as hazardous.The result was that in 1981 Turkey revoked her NOTAM ,because it was hurting her tourism.

This is till today the real FIR regions of Europe and as you can see,the Greek one covers all the Aegean up to the Greek-Turkish borders.Till today,the Turks insist that they can enter Athens FIR without giving flight plans when flying in international airspace within the Athens FIR.Practically civillian flights must dodge turkish formations.So each time they enter,greek aircrafts take off,identify them and engage them in dogfight if necessary.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/386/fir0rv.jpg

The Turks didn't abbandon their dreams though.Next step was to claim SAR (Search and Rescue) missions for the eastern half of the Aegean (always in the policy of "if you can't own it,at least take operational control over it").This is the map that the Turks (in their ministry's and army's site) declare unilateraly as their SAR limits (it is the same limits as their NOTAM 714).A bit more and they will arrive to claim the air over Athens:

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6179/arkurbol9rh.gif

The REAL limits,for air SAR coincides with FIR limits and for maritime incidents the same too.These are the official SAR zones by IMO (nternational Maritime organization):

http://www.imo.org/includes/blastDat...d%3D9046/1.pdf

You can use google earth to see the coordinates.Greek SAR zone is equal to FIR zone ,despite what the Turks say.

And these are the map zones as pubblished recently in a turkish magazine with the 150 greek islets they claim as "disputed",some of which are even inhabited.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2/grayzones0tl.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/4553/grey9gq.jpg

Then we also haven't extended our territorial waters to 12nm as have done all other countries according to Montego Bay treaty for the Law of the Sea,because the Turks say they will get even more "suffucated" and if we do,they will attack us (casus belli).Funny is that Turkey hasn't signed the Treaty ,but has extended her own waters to 12nm whatsoever towards the North and south.The Treaty provides that if someone has objections ,can go to the International Court of hague for juridical solution if the 2 parts can't agree on a private mediator.Unfortunately,Turkey refuses to recognize the decisions of the international court of Hague as binding,so we can't go there either.The EU AFTER letting Turkey as candidate member,has asked to "solve peacefully disputes in respect of the UN charter and if necessary to bring them to Hague",but i am afraid it will as always remain a trash paper lost under the piles of money.

Another dispute is the width of greek airspace.Greece had set it to 6 + 4 for police duties in 1932 and Turkey in the 50s had accepted it in the ICAO (International Civil Air Organization) agreements ,manuals,maps etc.In 1974 they disputed it.Now,for me,we could in fact be wrong in this ,since the international rule is to have equal airspace to waters,that are currently 6nm.The greek position that Turkey had recognized untill then 10nm doesn't seem right to me.Anyway,if we were to extend our waters to 12nm ,like the international law says,we would have airspace of 12nm,so at the end we 're not blattantly evil.

Another yet is the continental shelf (the Aegean has oil).There is no agreement on that either.Turkey says that the eastern half of the continental sheld should be hers ,because the greek islands shouldn't have their own continental shelf (contrary to what international law says).Again we can't go to hague ,because Turkey doesn't recognize its authority as binding.

So,yes,this is still going on and will continue to go on,untill we go to Hague and end this peacefully or untill the next crisis that won't be avoided at the last minute like in 1996.

Another reason why Eu and USA don't sweat much about it,is because we are their best weapons customers.Greece would have been a much richer country if it wasn't investing 4-5% of the budget on defence.Same for Turkey.

And this is my favourite gun camera picture.Because it's David beating Goliath.Greek Mirage F-1 (1970 vintage,retired about 3 years ago) aiming with the machine gun on Turkish F-16.A bit like a revenge for the greek Mirage F.1 pilot that crashed trying to brake the gunlock of the turkish F-16.


http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9871/miragef18qr.jpg

If only the 2 countries could reach a hostilities agreement whereby they would only attack each other with flaming kebabs.

Here, Here!


Maybe the turks demand you greeks stop adding turkey in your Gyros?

Wouldn't mind some humous fights here as well - as long as someone else cleans up.

If ever a war happens between the 2,what happened to jugoslavia will seem like a theme park and we ll both be destroyed.For those who are familiar with weapons,this is a list ,updated to last summer more or less of the 2 armies.


L A N D F O R C E S
*MAIN BATTLE TANKS
GREECE:
-Leopard 2A6 HEL:170 ordered.
-Leopard 2A4: 182 Ordered(Upgrading them later to A6 )
-Leopard 1A5: 501 (232 under delivery from German surplus)
-Leopard 1A3GR: 103(upgrading to A5 was cancelled after Germans gave the A5)
-Leopard 1V: 115 REMAINING FROM 170(10 equipped with meccanisms for minefield penetration.)
-M60A3 TTS:307 (will gradually be removed from front line and be give to reservist units)
-M60A1 RISE/RISE Passive:<273 (will be gradually withdrawed)
-M48A5 MOLF:396 (will stay in service untill the start of the next decade)
-M48A5:<259 (they are being withdrawed gradually)
-M48A3/A3 MOLF:11/4(For trainning)
__________________________________________________ ____
*ARMOURED VEHICLES
GREECE:
-Marder: 435 ordered
-BMP-1/P OST:501 (with an M2 machine gun 12,7mm)
-VBL Panhard:172 (plus 69 more ordered…final number needed 396)
-Leonidas 1:100(will be upgraded to Leonidas 2)
-Leonidas 2:391
-M113A1/A2:1679(part of them will be upgraded)
-M113A1:54 for medical purposes
-M125A1/A2:>200(with M29 Mortar 81 mm)
-M901A1/A2 ITV: 291 (With TOW Antitank missles)
-M106A1/A2:256(self propelled 107mm mortar M30 the 120 will be equipped with an E-56 mortar 120 mm)
-M125A1:>200(self propelled 81mm M29 mortar)
-M113 TOW:12
-M577A2:56
*ROCKET LAUNCHERS:
GREECE:
-M270 MLRS:36
-MGM 140A Atacms Block I:102
-RM-70(40x122mm):116 (with new rockets they arrive at 36km range)
__________________________________________________ ________
*SELF PROPELLED ARTILLERY
GREECE:
-Pzh 2000(155mm):24 (12 more ordered)
-M109A5:12
-M109A3GE A1:50 + 96 more ordered from German surplus
-M109A1B/A2(155mm):133(82 of them are A2.Plans for upgrading)
-M110A2(203mm):145
__________________________________________________ ________
*NON SELF PROPELLED ARTILLERY:
GREECE:
-M114(155mm):266(Big number under storage)
-M56(105mm):18
-M101(105mm):445 (part to be retired)
-Pdr 25(87,6mm):36(to be retired)
-M116(75mm):180(Big number retired…some under storage)
*ANTI AIRCRAFT MISSILES:
GREECE:
-MIM 23B Improved Hawk PIP3:42x3(upgraded to phase 3 )
-TOR M1:21
-OSA AK/AKM (SA-8/B):31(will be equipped with infrared cams)
-ASRAD HELLAS:54 under delivery with 432 Stinger Block I.
-FIM 92B/C Stinger & Block I:1237
ANTI AIRCAFT GUNS
GREECE:
-L/60 & M1 (40mm) :160 (remain from 227)
-Artemis 30 (2x30mm): 60
-ZSU-23(2X23mm): 506
-Mk 20 Rh-202(2x20mm) :285
*ATTACK HELICOPTERS:
GREECE:
-AH 64A+ Apache:20
-AH 64D Longbow:12 ordered (with 4 Longbow radars)
*TRANSPORT HELICOPTERS
GREECE:
-CH 47 DG/SD Chinook:15
-NH 90:20 ordered (plus 16 option)
-UH-1H Iroquois:30 (upgraded to UH-1H Huey II level)
-AB 205A/A1&Bell 205A:75
-AB 206B Jet Ranger:16
-AB 212:1
-NH 300C:17(trainning)
__________________________________________________ ________
*ANTI TANK MISSILES:
GREECE:
-Kornet E:196
-TOW I/II:366(the 159 TOW I are under upgrade to II)
-MILAN:290(with MIRA night vision opticals)
-AT 4 Fagot:262
-RPG 18(64mm):18706 (plans for gradual withdrawing)
-M 72A2LAW(66mm):10841 (plans for gradual withdrawing)
-ACL 89 STRIM:135
*ARTILLERY GUNS WITHOUT RECOIL
GREECE:
-M40A1(106mm):1251(in use in national guard)
-M67(90mm):1376 (plans for replacement)
-Carl Gustaf(84mm):1988 (delivered 20.680 M551 rockets…equiped with night vision opticals)
__________________________________________________ ________
*MORTARS
GREECE:
-E 56 EBO(120mm):Production about to start.Needs for 420
-M2/M30(107mm):624
-E 44 EBO(81mm):460 + 430 more to be ordered
-M1/M29(81mm):2750 (1604 active service.The rest stored)
-M19:<150(retiring)
-Commando EBO (60mm):150 (under delivery)
*AUTOMATIC GRENADE LAUNCHERS:
GREECE:
-H&K GMC (40x53mm): 633 under delivery from ELAS.AE
-Mk19 Mod3(40x 53):in SF units unknown number
N A V Y:
*SUBMARINES
GREECE:
-Type 214:4 (with AIP system 4 units will be delivered between 2005 and 2009)
-Type 209/1200:4(upgrading 4 ,including AIP system in 3)
-Type 209/1100:4 ( upgraded)
*MAIN SURFACE UNITS
GREECE:
-MEKO 200HN:4(frigates)
-Kortenaer:10(frigates) (6 and option for 2 under upgrade)
-Type 420:5 (ASW Corvettes)
__________________________________________________ ________
*HELICOPTERS AND NAVAL COOPERATION AIRCRAFTS:
GREECE:
-P3B Orion:6(plans for new aircrafts)
-S 70B6 Sea Hawk:10 (+1 under delivery Dec.2004)
-AB 212ASW:8
-AB212EW:2
-SA 319B Alouette III:2 (trainning)
*FAST GUIDED MISSILE VESSELS:
GREECE:
-Super Vita:5 soon under delivery
-Combattante IIIB:5
-Combattante III:4
-Type S148:6
*GUNSHIPS TORPEDO AND PATROL SHIPS:
GREECE:
-Mahitis class:3+1 under delivery (gunship,enhanced Pirpolitis)
-Pirpolitis class:2 (gunship)
-Osprey 55:2
-Typ S141 :4 (Jaguar class)
-Asheville:2
-Nasty:4 (torpedo boats)
-Kelefstis Stamou class:2
-Panagopoulos class:2
*MAIN LANDING SHIPS:
GREECE:
-Zubr:4 (hovercrafts)all delivered ..option for 2 more
-Terrebonne Parish:1
-Samos class:5
*LANDING CRAFTS:
GREECE:
-LCU Type 520:5
-LCM Type 521:11
-LCVP:55
*MINE SHIPS
-Hunt: 2
-Castano : 2
-Adjutant :1
-msc294: 8
*LAND BASED SYSTEMS
GREECE:
-MM 40 Block 2 Exocet:? forming 2 batteries (last year was reported as 20)
-Crotale NG:2 (SAMs)
-Bofors 40 mm L/70&L/60 : ?
-Mk 20 RH202 (2X20mm) :183
*PATROL SHIPS/COAST GUARD
GREECE
->29meters : 12 (SA’AR 4/Dilos class 4/Relliance 1/Europatrol 250mk1 1/
Abeking & Rasmussen 3)
->29 meters :91 (CB-90hcg 3/ Lambro class 16/ Sunquestor 43/ LS-51 16/
ol44 13/ Olympic l65 5/ D44 1/Crest Ital. 1/

A I R F O R C E
*TACTICAL COMBAT AIRCRAFTS:
GREECE:
-F 16 Block 52+:60 (20 are two seated) + 30 new ordered
-F 16 Block 50D:40
-F 16 Block 30:34
-Mirage 2000-5:18 ordered and 10 Mirage2000EGM will be upgraded to 2000-5 level
-Mirage 2000EGM/BGM:33(10 of them to be 2000-5)
-F4E Peace Icarus 2000:35 (upgraded AMRAAM capable)
-F4E(SRA):25
-A7E & TA 7C Corsair II:55
-A7H & TA 7H Corsair II:41
-RF4E:23
*AIR TO AIR MISSILES
GREECE:
-AIM 120B AMRAAM:340 (100 are AIM-120C-5* Plus 50 more are ordered)
-MICA EM/IR:300 ordered(100 EM+100 IR)*option for 50 more
-Super 530D:80 (Plus 2 for training purposes)
-IRIS T: 300 (under delivery +300 option)
-AIM 9M Sidewinder:165
-AIM 9L/I1 Sidewinder:300
-AIM 9L/I Sidewinder:347
-AIM 9Juli/I1 Sidewinder:400
-Magic 2:304 (plus 12 for training proposes)
-AIM 9P4 Sidewinder:1000
-AIM 7E/F Sparrow:? (includes also 100 AIM-7E2)
*GROUND ATTACK WEAPONS/PODS:
GREECE:
-JDAM 300 (Under delivery together with upgread kits for mk82/500 libr mk83/1000 libr and mk84 /2000 libr)
-AGM 88B HARM: 84(upgrading to BlockIIIA)
-SCALP EG: 90 ordered(Storm Shadow)
-AFDS:70 (auto dispenser system,anti runway,anti tank)*option for 30 more
-Long shots : 300
-AM39 Exocet Block 2: 39 (anti ship)
-AGM 65G Maverick IIR: 200
-AGM 65 A/B Maverick: 284 (plans for upgrading in H)
-GBU 8/B Hobos: 96(electro-optical guidance)
-Paveway III: 200 GBU-24 and 250 BLU-109/B ordered
-Paveway I & II:1162 (LGB bombs)
-Mk 70 Condib:? (anti runways)
-BLU Durandal : 523
-AN/AVQ 23 Pave Spike:? (laser pod for F4E)
-AN/AAQ 14 LANTIRN:16 + 8 ordered pods for F 16 targeting
-AN/AAQ 13 LANTIRN:24 pods for F 16 navigation
-Litening II ALD:15 (both targeting and navigation)
-AN/AAR 45:?( IR navigation pods for A-7)
*ANTI AIRCRAFT MISSILES
GREECE:
-PAC-3 Patriot:6(with 200 missiles)
-S 300 PMU1:2
-CROTALE NG:9 with 176 missiles (other 2 are in use for the navy)
-TOR M1:4
-Skyguard 1 :12 (Velos system)
-4xAIM-7M Sparrow :20 (Radar Super)
-GDF-003 (2X35mm) :24 (Giraffe. The RIM-7M are 280 to be upgraded)
-Artemis 30 (2x30mm) : 38
-Mk20 Rh202 (2x20mm) : 326

*TACTICAL TRANSPORT AIRCRAFTS
GREECE:
-C 130H Hercules:10(ELINT/SIGINT in 2.Upgrading with electronic equipment)
-C 130B Hercules:5(same upgrade programme)
-C 27J Spartan: 12 ordered (the first is arriving Ian.2005 plus 3 more will be ordered)
-Do 28D Skyservant:12(Retiring)
*HELICOPTERS (SAR/CSAR):
GREECE:
-AS 332C1 Super Puma(SAR):4
-AS 332C1 Super Puma(CSAR):4
-AB 205(SAR): 11

*AWACS:
GREECE:
-EMB 145H Ericsson Erieye: 4


TURKISH ARMY

MAIN BATTLE TANKS

Leopard 1A3T1/TU1: 77
Leopard 1A3T1: 150
Leopard 1A1A1: 165 (162 are under ASELSAN upgrade)
M60A3: 658
M60A1 RISE/Passive: 274 (170 under SABRA III upgrade)
M 48A5T2: 750 (Upgraded to M60 A3 Standard)
M 48A5T1: 1369 (Upgraded to M60 A1 Standard. About 1229 are in active service)
M 48T5: 179 (Upgraded to M60 A1 Standard. About 103 are in active service)
M 48A3: 658 (Reserve and obsolete. Used for spare parts)
M 48A2C: 575 (Reserve and obsolete. Used for spare parts)

ARMORED PERSONNEL CARRIERS

FNSS Armored Infantry Fighting Vehicle (AIFV): 650
FNSS Advanced Armored Personnel Carrier (AAPC): 830 + 551 under delivery
FNSS Armored Mortar Vehicle (AMV): 170 (self propelled 81 mm mortar)
FNSS Armored TOW Vehicle (ATV): 48
M 113A/A1/A2/T2/T3: 3162
M 106A1: 179 (Self propelled M-30 107mm mortar)
M 125A1: 10+ (Self propelled M-29 81mm mortar)
M 113 TOW: 156
BTR 80: 180
RN 94 (6X6): 5
Otokar Cobra (4X4): 5
Otokar AKREP: ?



Rocket Launchers

WS1A (4X320mm): 30 (6 batteries each with 5 launchers).
M 270 MLRS (12X227mm): 12
MGM 140 ATACMS Block 1: 72: Option for 48 more.
TR 107 (12X107mm): 48
RA 7040 (40X70mm): 24
T 122 CNRA (40X122mm, 40km): >52

Towed Artillery

M 155 (203mm): 140
M 114A1/A2 (155mm): 538
M 59 (155mm): 152
SKODA (150mm): 72
M 101A1 (105mm): 830
M 38 Skoda (105mm): 12 (Used in training)
105R Metalgun (105mm): 11 (Used in training)
M 116 (75mm): 180
T 155 Panter 155/52 FT-2000 (155mm): 24 (Total requirement for 400)

Self-Propelled Artillery

M 110A2 (203mm): 295
M 55 (203mm): 9
M 107 (175mm): 36
M 44T (155mm): 164 (Upgraded)
M 52T (155mm): 360 (Upgraded)
M 108T (155mm): 26 (Possible upgrade)
T 155 Firtina (K9T) 155/52 SP-2000 (155mm): 32 (Total requirement for 300)

Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs)

HARPY Attack UAV (500 km): 108
Cutlass/Harop (1000 km): 48
I-GNAT Surveillance UAV (500 km): 1
HERON MALE: 3 systems (each with 1 ground station, 3 UAVs) will be delivered by 2007.

ANTI-AIRCRAFT MISSILES

ATILGAN KMS (1X8 FIM-92B/C Stinger): 6 (70 ordered)
ZIPKIN KMS (1X4 FIM-92 Stinger): 4 (35 ordered)
FIM 92B/C Stinger Post/RPM: 800+ (4882 missiles)
FIM 43A Redeye: 1089
9M39 Igla (SA-18 Grouse): 42

ATTACK HELICOPTERS

AH1W Super Cobra: 6
AH1P Cobra: 27
TAH1P Cobra: 6

Air-to-Ground Missiles

HellFireIIK2: 216 (Used in the AH-1W Super Cobra helicopters)
TOW II: ? (Used in the AH-1S/P Cobra helicopters)

OTHER HELICOPTERS

AS532UL Cougar Mk1: 28 (4 SAR, 4 ambulance, 4 VIP, 16 utility)
S70A28 Blackhawk: 21 (13 will undergo ASELSAN avionics upgrade, 8 SOF)
S70D28 Blackhawk: 52 (5 SAR, 4 ambulance, 41 utility, 2 SOF CSAR)
UH1H/2020-ASAM: 52
UH1H Iroquois: 42 (24 training)
UH1D Iroquois: 20
AB205T/2020: 23
AB205A1: 27
AB206B3 Jet Ranger: 28 (24 option)



ANTI-TANK MISSILES

TOW I/II: 365
MILAN: 392+: With MIRA thermal sights
ERYX: 550 (1200 missiles)
9M113M Konkurs (AT5 Spandrel): 72 (420 missiles)
COBRA: 186 (Used for training purposes only)
RPG 7 (40mm): 5000+
M 72 A2 LAW (66mm): 40.000+

ARTILLERY GUNS WITHOUT RECOIL

M40A1 (106mm): 2137
M20(75mm):1000 (in storage)
M 18(57mm):871(in storage. Small number in use at Marines)

ANTI-AIRCRAFT GUNS

M 42 (2X40mm): 110
L 70 & L 70T Bofors (40mm): 312 (52 with Officine Galileo P56 optical sight)
L 60 & M1A1 (40mm): 600+
GDF 003 Oerlikon (2X35mm): 120
GDF 001 Oerlikon (2X35mm): 100+
GAI D01 Oerlikon (2X20mm): 440
Mk 20 Rh202 (2X20mm): 300+
M55 (4X12.7mm): 900

MORTARS

HY-12Di (120mm): 578
M-30 (107mm): 1265
UT1 (81mm): ?
M1/M29 (81mm): 3175
M 19 (60mm): ?

AUTOMATIC GRENADE LAUNCHERS

(40x53mm): 1500+ (Mk19 copy from Roketsan)
Mk19 Mod3:?

****************************************

TURKISH NAVY

SUBMARINES

GUR Class Type 209T2/1400: 2 (2 more ordered)
PREVEZE Class Type 209T1/1400: 4
ATILAY Class Type 209/1200: 6 (Possible upgrade for 4 subs)

MAIN SURFACE UNITS

Gabya (G) Class (Oliver Hazard Perry): 8
Tepe Class (Knox): 3
Barbaros Class (MEKO200-IIA): 2
Salihreis Class (MEKO200-IIB): 2
Yavuz Class (MEKO200-I): 4
Aviso A69 (D'Estienne D'Orves) or B Class: 6

HELICOPTERS AND NAVAL AIRCRAFT

ATR-72-500 MPA: 0 (10 ordered)
CN-235-100M: 9 (6 MPA+3MSA Coast Guard)
Socata TB-20: 7 (training)
S-70B-28D Seahawk: 7 (8 more ordered + 1 optional)
AB-212E: 3 (Electronic Warfare)
AB-212N1: 2
AB-212N2: 2
AB-212N3: 5
AB-212A: 2
AB-206B: 3
AB-412EP: 8 (All Coast Guard SAR, 5 more ordered)
A109K-II: 1 (Coast Guard SAR)

FAST GUIDED MISSILE CRAFTS

KILIC II Class: 2 (4 more ordered)
KILIC Class Type TPB57 052B: 3
YILDIZ Class Type FPB 57: 2
DOGAN Class Type FPB 57: 8 (received upgrade)
KARTAL Class Type S141: 8

GUN SHIPS AND PATROL BOATS

AB Class Patrol Vessel: 7
SG80 Class Patrol Vessel: 12 (Coast Guard. 6 ordered.)
KW15 Class Coastal Patrol Vessel: 8 (Coast Guard)
SG1 Class Coastal Patrol Vessel: 1 (Coast Guard)
SG Class Coastal Patrol Vessel: 12 (Coast Guard)
MRTP15 Class Interceptor Craft: 18 (Coast Guard)
MRTP29 Class Large Patrol Craft: 9 (Coast Guard)
MRTP33 Class Large Patrol Craft: 1 (Coast Guard. 10 ordered.)
SAR33 Class Patrol Vessel: 10 (Coast Guard)
SAR35 Class Patrol Vessel: 4 (Coast Guard)
SG21 Class Large Patrol Vessel: 14 (Coast Guard)

MAIN LANDING SHIPS

Ertugrul Class (Terrebonne Parish) LST: 2
Osman Gazi Class LST: 1
Bayraktark Class LST: 1
Sarucabey Class LST: 2

LANDING CRAFTS

EDIC Class LCT: 28
C 302 Class LCM: 16

MINE WARFARE SHIPS

Edincik Class: 5
S Class: 9
F Class: 4
K Class: 3
A Class (MHV-45-014 Class): 2 (4 more ordered)

LAND BASED SYSTEMS

ZIPKIN KMS (1X4 FIM-92 mounted Stinger): ? (11 ordered).

******************************

TURKISH AIR FORCE

F 16C/D Block 50: 76
F 16C/D Block 40: 104
F 16C/D Block 30: 37
F 4E 2020 Terminator: 52
F 4E Phantom: 83
RF 4E Phantom: 18
F 5 2000: 48 trainers under delivery
NF 5A/B Freedom Fighter: 9 (Turkish Stars)


AIR-AIR MISSILES

AIM 120A/B AMRAAM: 314 (176 AIM 120A + 138 AIM 120B)
AIM 7E Sparrow: 367
AIM 9M Sidewinder: 500
AIM 9L/I Sidewinder: 640
AIM 9S Sidewinder: 310
AIM 9P3 Sidewinder: 750+

AIR TO GROUND WEAPONS/PODS

AGM 88B HARM: 96
Popeye I: 100
Delilah II Cruise Missile: 50 ordered
AGM 65G Maverick IIR: 274
AGM 65A/B Maverick: 550
GBU 8/B HOBOS: 200
Paveway I-II: 1200
BLU 107 Durandal: 523
AN/AVQ 23 Pave Spike (laser designation pod for F-4E): ?
AN/AAQ 14 LANTIRN: 40
AN/AAQ 13 LANTIRN: 40
LOROPS-IR: 12

ANTI AIRCRAFT MISSILES

I-Hawk XXI (HAWK 21) (1X3) launchers: 0 (8 batteries (24 launchers) to be delivered in 2005)
MIM14B Nike Hercules: 72
Rapier FSB1: 86 (85 launchers updated to Rapier B1X level. 840 additional Mk2B missiles under delivery)
ZIPKIN KMS (1X4 FIM-92 mounted Stinger): ? (32 ordered).
FIM92C Stinger RMP: 108

TACTICAL TRANSPORT AIRCRAFTS

A400M: 0 (10 ordered)
C 130E Hercules: 7 (to be upgraded)
C 130B Hercules: 5 (With ELINT/SIGINT equipment)
C 160T Transall: <16
CN 235-100M: 50 (3 VIP/16 EW)
KC 135R-CRAG Stratotanker: 7

EARLY WARNING AIRCRAFT

B-737-700/MESA THEIK: 4 ordered

HELICOPTERS

AS532UL Cougar Mk1: 20 (14 SAR+6 CSAR)
UH1H Iroquois: 36 (20 SAR, 4 EH, 12 utility)



Now i think it is obvious why nobody is eager to stop our arm race.

No,we already don't use turkey in the gyros. :D I think they just want some islands for their summer vacations.

This is bad, my Grandfather on my Mother's side (actually from the Ionnina area) took part in the doomed 1922? campaign in Smyrna (on the Greek side) and last year I visited Cappadocia in Turkey where my father's ancestors come from, they were also Greek btw. Most of people in Turkey are actually pretty nice, but the government, and the huge influence of the Turkish army is rather scary. :-? I also am disappointed the EU could not bring about a settlement of the Cyprus question. :down:

For airforce fans - dogfight video
 

Thanks U-214 for your extended answers.
I'm quite surprises that the Aegean is such a hot area.
I'm intertested because recently I flew a lot on a shared KLM/Cyprus Air flight to Cyprus, just past Turkey, and was wondering about this conflict...

Fairly sure thats a F-16 not a F-15. (the 2nd plane to fly by right?) :ping:

Anyways U-214 I see you listed the A-7 Corsair II in Greece's Air Force. Good to see they didn't discard those birds. Fantastic planes, they have a good range and a huge bomb load. My dad worked in an A-7 squadron in the US Navy and loves them. :up:

My grandfather was also there in 1922.Pitty,we would have got rid of a bad neighbour once and for all,we arrived at 50 miles from Ankara and then lost a battle and the war.It was the fault of the ungrateful mainland voters though,that brought back the King in Greece and this shifted some of the super powers into helping Turkey.Oddly there is still a trauma in Turkey left,which makes them paranoid (i ve "met" in internet some that actually think we may invade them...)

Yes,the problem is the deification of the figure of Kemal Ataturk,the fact that in his testament-constitution he gave to the army the role of the guarantor of the constitution and so it has privileged position in their society and in their business.Because unlike in any other country,most of the "state" weapons factories are in reality "army owned" ,so they have every reason to want an arms race,since they feed their own pockets.And the propaganda with which the Turks are fed by their military establishment is unbeleivable.They are so brainwashed that are convinced that Greece is the provocating factor seeking clash with Turkey.The fact that we are 11 mln and they are 70mnl or that strangely we don't ask any turkish soil is irrelevant.It's them who are patient with us.

Duh,the EU has taken no real position (other than nice words on papers/resolutions)for greek-turkish disputes and consider than Greece is in the ECC and later EU since 1981.So go figure if they are in hurry to do anything about Cyprus which only entered the EU 2 years ago...The UN resolutions on Cyprus against Turkey would make Saddam look like a boy scout,yet not only all close their eyes to them,but Britain and USA have clear pro-turkish position.Anyway,Cyprus is pursuing better her interests once in the EU than Greece is ,if you ask me.We are in a sleepy condition ,simply giving "green light" to Turkey with no exchange since 1999.At the end we ll let Turkey in the EU and nothing will have changed in their behaviour.

http://www.hri.org/Cyprus/Cyprus_Pro...ions-list.html

It's called "realpolitik".That's why we arm ourselves,because we 've learned that we can't count on anyone if something happens in the Aegean,just like in 1996 Newsweek was out with an article about how we almost went to war about "2 rocky islets that Greeks call Imia and Turks call Kardak".Well,the result of that "innocent" incident were the maps claiming 150 more,like i posted above.But Newsweek didn't bother to say "hey,let's see who's right".And even those who knew,didn't say anything pubblic.The Italian Minister of Foreign Affairs at the time,Lamberto Dini,sent a telegram to the Turks the night of the crisis saying that the islands were indeed part of the Dodekanese and transfered from Italy to Greece after WWII.A turkish newspaper lately revealed that the turkish minister that received the telegraph concealed it from the turkish PM of the time (Tansu Ciler).Yet,still today ,with everything against them,they continue this "dispute".The funny is that the Turks raised the SAME dispute with the Italians in 1932 and the Italians had the borders delimitated AGAIN in detail in a Treaty,which also specifically says that Imia (Kardak in Turkish) was in the Italian side of the border (and so later greek):

30. a moitie distance entre Kardak [Imia] (R.k.s.)et Kato I. (Anatolie),
http://www.hri.org/docs/mpadocs/96-02-01.mpadocs.html

That's why Dini was sending telegraphs,cause it's mentioned by name.Also in Lausanne Treaty 1923 it is clearly stated that Turkey doesn't have any sovereignty over islands over 3nm from its coast.
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1918p/lausanne.html
Imia are 3,3 nm away from their coast.

But of course treaties like that are details when you are in for something.

And so every now and then we have a new "dispute" raised and we have to behave politely about it.Like if you have a neighbour that wakes up after 80 years and says "listen my garden should be 5 meters inside your garden and so i call that gray zone and ask you to find a middle solution like reasonable people,but i won't bring you to court for that claim of mine".What are you supposed to do?Strangely all the "disputes" are about dividing something greek and are raised unilaterally by Turkey.


My friend,for a year we were even in CIA's "most likely to explode" list.Thankfully we arrived close but didn't quite explode.

I m glad you weren't a passenger of flight like this:

June 30, 2003 - Two Turkish F-16s harassed a commercial plane of the Greek express courier company "Veravia". The propeller cargo plane had taken off from Athens' "Eleftherios Venizelos" International Airport and was en route to Larnaca Airport in Cyprus.

http://www.f-16.net/news_article697.html

Turkish F-16s buzz Greek passenger plane
By Lieven

June 9, 2003 - Today, two Turkish F-16s flew close to an Olympic Airways Boeing 717 in Greek airspace, triggering the crash avoidance alarm and prompting a protest by the Greek Foreign Ministry. The passenger plane (flight 321) was en route from Athens to Istanbul.

http://www.f-16.net/news_article652.html


Because as i said,they don't submit flight plans.They roar into the Athens FIR and unless our aircrafts identify them and ask them flight plans,the civillian flights end up like that.


Another time they flew 300 ft over the Rhodes civillian airport.The problem is,if we do shoot them down first,we risk having Newsweek or any other saying again "an incident occured in what the Greeks call defense of their airspace and the Turks hostile action ".The rest on who was the aggressor and who was the victim will be a political decision of the various govs and we know that US will support Turkey..And if a war starts,Greece wants Turkey to be the one to fire the first shot for political reasons.For example even the 1996 dogfight that ended up in the Turkish F-16 being shot down,could have had political conseguences.Now,both sides kept it as "accident" untill a greek newspaper 2 years ago wrote something and a retired Turk Chief of Staff made pubblic declaration that it was in deed shot down.The result was that the family of the Turkish pilot,encouraged by the gov,threatened to sue Greece before the European Court of Human Rights.

March 4, 2004 - According to Turk.us, the family of a Captain who was killed in a dog fight over the Aegean Sea, sued Athens, at the European Court for Human Rights (ECHR). Pilot Captain Nail Erdogan was killed in a F-16 during the flight over the Aegean on 8 October 1996. The petition of his family to the ECHR has been accepted by the court.
http://www.f-16.net/news_article1012.html

At the end this was proven not true and there was no case filed against Greece,but the Turks leaked this rumour probably for "internal consumption" as there should have been some form of "satisfaction" inside Turkey once it was admitted that the plane was shot down.A matter of prestige,since they also cultivate the idea of "invincible" army.



You can choose your friends ,but you can't choose your neighbours.Unfortunately,since the ancient times we are in the border of Europe being first in the row of repelling asian attackers...

Yes,they are still in service (also in Portugal if my memory still serves me) ,well known as "work horses" and have been also certified to use Maverick G IIR and AFDS as well as IR pods in our airforce.But they will be retired by 2010-2012.We keep them mainly for CAS missions exactly because of their great range and bomb cargo.

Greek pilots also love them.I 've been told that in bombing missions they are maybe even more precise than the F-16 and behave very well in ultra low flying.But they are growing old and their main disadvantage is that aren't AMRAAM capable ,so they need constant protection by CAP squadrons.

For deep strike missions their duty is now taken over by the 2 seated F-16s Block 52+ mainly and the Mirage2000 with SCALP (250 km range)

And another example of how one can rely on foreign press to say what happens.From CNN about the 1996 crisis:

Greece, Turkey circle island each says is theirs

http://www-cgi.cnn.com/WORLD/9601/tu...reece_dispute/

The title alone is very eloquent...It would require just to open a map and say whose really is even without reading the treaties.

And this is how you can orchestrate the whole dispute:

"The conflicting claims emerged late last month after a Turkish ship ran aground near the islet and refused assistance from the Greek coast guard, saying it was on Turkish territory."


So the crisis happened,we almost went to war,and they say "there are 150 disputed islands,let's talk and divide them".Something like "let's divide your property".But at the same time they are allergic to the sound of "Court of Hague"...