About merchant ship wartime colours
Interesting read:
https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/threa...colours.29141/ summarizing:
|
Quick addendum regarding Liberty ships and dazzle camo patterns:
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum...1eee0d#p822146 Quote:
|
Thanks for sharing this :yeah:
I was recently trying to find information on the same subject, namely when did painting schemes change from what's visible on pre-war photos to "gray is good for everyone" approach, but didn't find anything other than incidental data. Your post and links clear up a lot. Edit: Quote:
Edit 2: Some photos: These we know from TWoS loading screens: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/12...3843625907.jpg Seems at least some ships wear black hull and brownish superstructure. https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/...0453575461.jpg Tanker in the middle, black hull with company colors on the funnel. Convoy in 1942, Hampton Roads. Shows merchant ships in grey, with brown decks, hulls painted with camouflage stripes: https://i.imgur.com/ePxDlao.jpg There's a lot of pictures here from convoy dated 1941 - ships mostly gray, with some like brownish colour (or perhaps just rust?): https://www.barnorama.com/vintage-pi...voy-from-1941/ |
Quote:
If you ask me, the bulk of British and Commonwealth vessels, especially deep-sea ships and ships expected to sail in convoys, should start painted in peacetime colours and turn grey within the first one or two weeks of war, at max. Conversely, coastal vessels, especially the ones belonging to far British colonies and to other cobelligerents, could be made to follow a somewhat slower re-painting curve, some old and lesser exposed ships retaining their vivid company colours until mid to late 1940 - or even later for the USA and Latin American countries which entered the war at a later stage and were substantially umprepared to it. A few inshore vessels which only operated within the relatively safe waters of ports or in their immediate vicinity, e.g. lighters, barges, tugboats, and the likes, could even be let to retain their colors (mixed with a generous dose of rust) until the end of the conflict. Quote:
|
Quote:
The last picture seem original though, but all the portrayed ships look to me as being plain grey, except for the vessels on the center left - probably an auxiliary vessel - which sports a dazzle pattern. |
@ kapuhy I have finally found the B/W originals of the "suspect" pictures you had posted before.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...nd_in_WWII.jpg From Wikimedia Commons: Quote:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgvAix1W...jpg&name=small from the Russia in Estonia Twitter profile: Quote:
Lancastrian Prince, owned by Prince Line (Furnes, Withy & Co.) New Westminster City, owned by Reardon Smith Line Esneh, owned by Moss Hutchinson Line Trehata, owned by Hain Steamship Co. Llanstephan Castle, owned by Union Castle Line Alchiba, owned by Van Nievelt, Goudriaan & Co. Add to them RFA Aldersdale (Admiralty-owned fleet oiler). Discarding for obvious reasons the latter, a quick internet research tells me that neither of the above shipping copanies used a similar funnel pattern. The attribution might be wrong, or further research might be required, nonetheless the fact remains: that looks lika a war convoy, and at least one of the ships composing it is not painted grey :up: |
Quote:
Quote:
https://www.history.navy.mil/content...1772365144.jpg (from here : https://www.history.navy.mil/researc...ip-shapes.html) |
Quote:
Quote:
|
Quote:
Edit: ninja'd :) Some other findings: - German supply ship Roda sinking after being torpedoed in 1940. Interesting example of keeping black/white painting and funnel colours even after being taken into navy service: https://shipwrecks.com/wp-content/up...da_sinking.jpg As for rules for peace-painted ships and coal burners in convoys, there were obviously exceptions, as shown by photo here (atlantic convoy in 1941, phot taken by Robert Capa): https://www.barnorama.com/wp-content...tic_convoy.jpg |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Maybe coal burners were not repainted grey because it was totally useless to try to camouflage a ship which produces so much black smoke !... :k_confused: |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
One photo cannot say anything about the whole story. Quote:
Quote:
As noted by kapuhy, brightly painted ships and old coal-burning tramps sailing within convoys might have been not too an uncommon exception to the above rules, but I would expect them to become rarer and rarer as the war progresses. By the way of that amazing picture by Robert Capa I think I have found the full set of photographs: https://www.lasegundaguerra.com/viewtopic.php?t=13661 https://izismile.com/2017/06/01/a_tr...1_32_pics.html Capa documented at least two Atlantic convoys. Apparently this set is from his first crossing, which took place in December 1941. Please note this other freighter with dark hull, bluff superstructure and white/blue funnel from the same convoy... http://s10.postimg.cc/7ylwd5ajt/NYC148410.jpg ...and the bad paintwork on these tankers http://s30.postimg.cc/q2nwe69ip/0_7a...bf4ba_orig.jpg http://s30.postimg.cc/9dr1w02b5/Wond..._War_II_by.jpg @ kapuhy good finding! :up: |
Quote:
Quote:
Measure 16 - Thayer System PLATE XI https://maritime.org/doc/camo/img/plate12.jpg < PLATE XII - Cargo Ship AK 25 Class - Thayer System 24 Quote:
Quote:
|
Absolutely brilliant! :up:
|
Not really; but thanks!:salute: the subject came up in Atoka220's thread: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...44&postcount=1 And I responded accordingly as I'm often aboard the USS Jeremiah O'Brian parked next to the Gato class USS Pampanito in SF's Fisherman's Wharf. The photos of the warehouse fire that scorched the Normandy survivor are terribly authentic; no imho 'bout it. Seeing such in real time should be a modders dream as to authenticity!! https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...78&postcount=8
|
Quote:
Else, interesting discussion here : http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling...7/t/33023.aspx |
Let's open a parenthesis on British and Commonwealth ensigns
Recently I have been digging on the internet for information on the ensigns worn by various types of British and Commonwealth vessels, and I thought I would share my findings here in case someone is interested.
Summary of the flags mentioned in this post and their usage: https://i.imgur.com/QITqBdT.png?1 Merchant vessels / Some troop transports (?) / Some Landing Ships / CAM/MAC ships British Red Ensign * https://i.imgur.com/8mlEs86.gif?1 As above Australian Red Ensign https://i.imgur.com/23WDUfR.png?1 As above Canadian Red Ensign https://i.imgur.com/an4fdj2.gif?1 As above New Zealand Red Ensign https://i.imgur.com/Kt3Ut7a.gif?1 As above South African Red Ensign ** https://i.imgur.com/EPzytgw.gif?1 Royal Mail Ships (?) Royal Mail Ensign https://i.imgur.com/LMRPrg4.gif?1 Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessels / Q-ships / Hospital Ships (?) Admiralty, Government Service or Transport Ensign https://i.imgur.com/l5SSbxu.gif?1 Troop Transports (?) / Hospital Ships (?) Board of Trade Ensign https://i.imgur.com/WzVGntG.gif?1 Vessels commissioned in one of the Commonwealth navies (ilcuding some landing ships), except Q-ships White Ensign _______________________ Notes * The Red Ensign (undefaced) was also the civil ensign flown aboard merchant vessels registered in British India. While the Raj had its own version of the Red Ensign defaced with the so called "star of India", this flag had only a limited use: Quote:
Quote:
** Since 1928 South Africa had its own national flag, nonetheless... Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
_______________________ That should be all for now guys. In case you find any wrong information, if you think I have missed some notable flag or vessel type, or if you can provide new information relevant to the subject of this post, I will gladly update it with your imputs :salute: |
Quote:
By the way, American pilots who joined the British Air Force also fought under the British flag in the Battle of the English Channel. They were seconded to the British forces. This applied not only to airplanes but also to ships. |
Quote:
Quote:
Before I do it, I have created a table which should cover most of the paint colours mentioned in the document (HEX values taken from here): https://i.imgur.com/lGPgRde.png Talking about the so called "Measure 16-Thayer System", I read that it was specifically designed for weather conditions similar to North Atlantic ones but, as far as I can understand, only troop transports and cargo ships commissioned in the US Navy were painted with it. The following link has a comprehensive list of vessels to which the said pattern might have applied: https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/USN-ships.html What I wonder is: which was the exact employment of those vessels by USN? Would they sail within mixed convoys? http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/ might have some answers Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
https://www.historylearningsite.co.u...le-of-britain/
Here is another table of colors for painting Boats. I use this color scheme to create skins. https://www.hostpic.org/images/2109231809290117.jpg |
Quote:
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:43 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2024 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.