How realistic is Sim Racing?
 

Good reasoning from a pro.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5nTsgIG4jo

I'll need to watch the video later. Is it Max giving the opinion?

I can't know what he goes on to say, but yes, sim racing is awesome. I've been a sim racer since the early 90s. My first real racing sim was Papyrus' Indy Car. Then Indy Car 2, then Grand Prix 2, on to GPL, GTR, the EA F1 games (like F1 Challenge 99-02), Papy's NASCAR games (especially NASCAR 2003).

I've skipped a few popular ones like iRacing and rFactor, and now my sim of choice is Codemaster's F1 2021. I love it and run a couple races a week in career modes. The genre has come so far, and seemingly simple things like the ability to use voice to communicate with your pitwall and dynamic weather have a dramatic effect on the experience.

I've been simming for a long time now. Two things in all those decades stand out as the best experiences I've had in this hobby. One is my time in Falcon 4, especially MP campaigns with my friends and squadron mates. The other is running online GPL leagues. For a number of years I ran Frugalsworld's GPL leagues, and there's been little in my life that I have approached with as much dedication and commitment as I did with GPL. If I had put just a fraction of that much effort in to say, my marriage, I would probably still gotten divorced but it would have lasted longer! haha

The memories, the competition, the camaraderie from those leagues were fantastic and I miss it to this day. Great people, and great times.

It was about a year ago Tuesday that I found F1 2020. I documented my experience in a thread over at SimHQ. If anyone is interested in my take on all aspects of this sim, particularly the career modes, you can read it here


F1 2020/21 Thread @ SimHQ

Falcon 4, Frugalsworld, I hear you. My serious time with Falcon was the RP series, espoecially 3-5, and then a revivla some yars later with allied Force. Some of my best PC sim experiences. Later then, both Steel beasts Pro and sim racing took ovr from my sim flying (FS2002, 2004, X).


My racing sims of choice are Assetto Corsa, AC Competizione and Raceroom. I use VR exlcusively, and mid-range Fanatec wheel and their pro pedals. No VR, no drive - once VR, always VR. No way back. Competizione at night in thunderstorm and VR is frightening, an experience second to none in PC simming. Only seeing is believing.


Other highlights of my sim racing career were Grand Prix 1 Amiga and Gran Prix 3 PC, Nascar Season 2003, GTR2. There were more, but these stand out.

You've got good gear. I've been using the red Momo wheel for nearly twenty years now. I bought three of them actually, so that if one ever went down I'd have a backup so I wouldn't miss that week's GPL race :)

Aside from Raceroom and the civie flight sims (never did get in to them) I've played all of those too. GP1! That's starting at the ground floor haha.

Yeah, I was on Frug's staff from the start, back when we were known more for XCom than Falcon 4. But it didn't take long before F4 became the thing Frug's was best known for, the center of the F4 community if I may be so bold. Too bad it's gone now.

I started my MP racing with a great group at a little-known site called Crash Test Dummies. We did GPL and the first GTR sim mostly. But then we migrated it all over to Frugs and I set up our GPL leagues. We ran the '67 and '65 cars.

We had drivers from all over the world. Austraila, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, England, Scotland, United States, and it was a truly remarkable that we could all come together on Saturday nights (Sunday morning down under). To be in with such a global group blew my mind. The fastest driver was a German, a man named Frank Steinbach. In those days we used the term 'alien' to describe drivers whose ability seemed out of this world. Frank was the apex alien haha. So fast in fact that he would intentionally handicap himself and drive the Cooper or the BRM or the White Whale while the rest of us drove Lotii, Eagles and Ferraris. The Eagle was my weapon of choice, because as we all know it was the finest Formula 1 car of all time. The Brabham was my '65 car for league racing.

So yes, now it's F1 2021, which I have a blast with. The reasons are all spelled out in the thread I linked to above so no need to repeat it. I'm a massive fan of the sport, never miss a race, and I love having my own Formula 1 fantasy world to live in, where I feel like a rising star on the biggest stage in motorsport. And by the way, Codemasters has recently released both Portimao and Imola as free DLC tracks since they were not ready in time for July's game launch.

Yeah, sim racing is good :)

Realisme isn't only what's in the game-such as graphic a.s.o it's also what things the player has.

Playing a race sim with your keyboard isn't exactly fun.

Markus

Threadfin, you should try out Raceroom. It has gone a longer way than any other sim out there, maybe. After SimBin' collapse the sim wea spoicke dup and redone froms cratch by suriovivors of that desaster. I came to it when that happened, and I never regretted it.

The best sim for GT3 and GT4 class, is Competizione. In these domains, Competizione reigns, is second to none. Cockpit immersion is overwhelming, too (talking from VR perspective).

Assetto Corsa Classic is still a superb platform and has one overwhelming argument in its favour: modding, tracks. When they released their tech demonstrator with the Lotus Elise, I think, in 2013, I was hooked from day one on. It was lightyears ahead of any driving sim I had tried until then.


That both Raceroom's and Assetto Corsa's physics gurus both hold eal world racing licenses and have experience (Raceroom's Alex Hodgkinson logged his first training laps in courses together with a certain David Hamilton...), and also studied the physics and engineering aspect of the business, unites for both sims practical driving experience and mathematical background knowledge. And this shows. Better it does not get: theory meets practice, practice meets theory.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I have Assetto Corsa, the original. It's good, but never quite lit my fire. I think the reason is I get the most enjoyment out of robust career modes, which a sim like F1 2021 does well.

I like sports cars, GT cars and that sort of thing fine. But having a compelling career mode is the most important thing for me, it's the same as flight sims or anything really.

Even a game like Combat Mission which is great, I only play campaigns, never single scenarios. This carries over through most of my simming. And unfortunately perhaps, some games get ignored as a result. DCS is a victim, as the devs never have understood how to give the player the proper playground for their amazing models. On the other hand I still fly Falcon 4 and maybe always will. I can easily wave aside fidelity issues in exchange for good career modes in all of these sims.

You can define your very own seasons/time tables both in ASC and RR. Length of seaosn, circuits, cars, race lengths, pitting or not, all can be set by you. Or join a seaosn table when preferring online. For the latter dont ask me, i don't play online much. Competizione has a championship mode, too, but I never tasted it. But hey, Competizione is the official title for the Blancpain series, so... go figure.


I did complete season championships in Grand Prix 1 ( :) ), and years ago i did two DTM seasons in Raceroom.

I've tried this Raceroom, playing it with the keyboard isn't fun.

On my wish list this Christmas is steering wheel and pedal.

Markus

A G29 already gets you started. Quality pedals are priority, especially brake pedal, for the reasons explained in the video. Good wheel does not make you faster (but raises immersion and enjoyability), good brake pedal does.



It seems we had this conversation some months ago? Or was it somebody else?

No it was you and me who had this discussion.

Since my mom and my sister ain't rich I can not wish for some expensive equipment.

Markus

Your mom and sister?


For many years I've been in to racing sims, as mentioned above. I have a good wheel and pedals set. Works great. But it's bulky, and in the way when I'm not actually racing. The pedals must displace my Crosswinds. Logistically, it's inconvenient (what a struggle eh?) So in a sense it's a bit of a pain in the rear to keep setting it up and putting it away when I'm done racing.

When I bought F1 2020 a year ago I thought I'd just see if I could get on with a controller. I didn't expect I'd like it. I watched a comparison video of a split screen between a driver using a wheel and one using a controller, and I could not tell which was which. I expected the wheel driver to be smooth, and the controller to reveal itself with hesitating movement as the driver makes constant adjustments with digital instead of analog input.

It took some time and number of laps to tweak the settings to find the right ones for me. And that was that. I've raced F1 2020/21 with a controller since. I know from experience it does not translate so seamlessly in all racing sims, but in this one it works marvelously well. I'm using a USB X Box controller that cost like $20. So, depending on the sim, you might find you don't need an expensive wheel/pedal setup to get started. YMMV.

It's really a comfortable way to go for me, not only avoiding the peripheral dance, but I also don't need to maintain any particular seating attitude, I never would have guessed I'd be racing a sim this way, but I do.

If a gamepad controller, then one where not the ministicks must be used for steering, but where, like on the PS4 with Gran Turismo, the pad gets held like a wheel and moved alltogether for steering, they call it motion control I think (and the PS game must be coded for using it). I found it to work surprisingly well in GT Sports. Not as good as a wheel, but way better than those fiddly titsy tiny microsticks. Their movement range is so small that you notoriously overdose the input.

Black Friday, here I come. Its time to start wrecking them in style, and so I placed an order for this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59cbxbE_ba8

By Fanatec standards its entry level. With 200 coins, the price is acceptable, more I would not pay for a wheel rim. Also, its light and thus matches well with my CSL wheelbase. Another point is I can use the functionality blindly and must not waste sexy looks for which i nevertheless have to pay - I drive with a VR mask on, so i do not marvel at the wheel during the ride, I see a photoreal virtual wheel instead.

Going to uninstall my Race Room.

Having these 5-7 sec. black screen before and after having played, is something I don't like. Made me remember the problem I had with Farming Simulator 17 and 19-Here I also had these 5-7 sec. black screen and often I got the message No-Signal on my monitor.

I'm not an computer expert-But it looks like the computer has problem hocking on the game and after release and hock up on ordinary computer(don't know how I else shall explain it.

So far it's only ETS2 and ATS I can play without any black screen.

Sad, even though it wasn't that fun to play Race Room It was interesting to play I'm planning on buying a Steering wheel(If I don't get on for Christmas) and pedal to my ETS2 and ATS.

Markus

Heavens save me, I turned into a pervert - I fell in love with a machine part...! :o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBEpDmTMtro

First impression is outstanding, awesome. I think I know nothing and have never seen anything about any other Fanatec item with such a positive price-value balance. Looks and feels are incredibly good in reality considering that it is - plastic. You hardly believe it. Its as wide as the old round rim I used, and even is 30 gramns lighter. That is good, becaise I have only a low-end wheel base by Fanatec standard, the CSL Elite. That motor moves this wheel as fast and powerful as the othe rim.

Very happy customer. Highly recommended product, especially for this price. Hard to imagine how to get more bang for the buck.

And I finally can opt for an analogue handbrake...! :D :yeah: Wait, TWO handbrakes, one in front and one at the rear...!!! :har:

Better callibration, setting up in-wheel options , establishing simulation profiles, and recapping the buttons and get rid of the toyish look of Xbox buttons and putting button labels on it is next. Tomorrow.


The rotaries have a very solid, high quality feel. The big two buttons in the top corners are thumb-bone breakers!

That's really nice, congrats. That would be perfect in my F1 sim. It would be so much better to dial in brake bias and differentials and fuel mix with rotaries than trying to navigate LCD menus at speed.

Setting it up, callibrating, programming for ACC now is done. I like the wheel, and ver ymuch, its incredibly much bang for the buck, even when consideirng that to the price for the wheel the costs of the mount must be added, it is not included with this one.


https://i.postimg.cc/sxgfBB41/20211126-114228.jpg



https://i.postimg.cc/MG1pgJGZ/20211126-114144.jpg



The stickers and button caps all were included, but there is a separate set of labels and coloured button caps avisalable for even more extensive setups. Costly, but thigns are wiorth whast people will to pay for it. I give the link, its at least interesting that such things are available.



https://fanatec.com/eu-de/accessorie...nd-sticker-set



They have black friday sales until end of the month, and some interetsing entry level offers, especially the R300 wheelrim combined with the CSL hub look intereszing, its 200 instead of 300 coins. Mind you, the wheelbase is not included. For Fanatec standards, its a steal.



https://static.mydealz.de/threads/ra.../1889562_1.jpg


And then there is their new BMW wheel for 1800 coins, which is a total and complete original 1:1 replica, design wise and functionality-wise. (My GT3 wheel is a replica, too, but has two differences, where it has a small OLED display, the real wheel has a forth rotary, and the X-box button in the right bottom corner that I mapped for VR recentering and camera change on my wheel - ACC allows maping of up to four functions on one button - , is missing, else it is identical to the real one). Take it off your PC, take it to the real world track, plug it into a real BMW, and drive with full functionality. What is that? The redefinition of "immersion"! :D No joke, both Fanatec advertize that you could do this. If you own that BMW. There is a hook in anything.



https://static.wixstatic.com/media/0...09637~mv2.webp


They also raised the curtain over the long kept secret, Fanatex now pürovides the offically licenses Playstation Grand Turismo wheel. Its ther wheel, pedla shiftes on it, wheelbase and pedal set (2). Available in four combinations (2 pedal combos, two wheelbases), the cheapest combination nevertheless will cost the player 700 coins. It looks not bad, but for that lot of money I would nevertheless prefer a wheel looking less toyish and fanatsy-driven.


And yes, I am a wheel junkey, I do not collect them or own many, just two, but already as a little kid I painted my own wheel and dashboard and glued it to the back of the carseat of my father when we were in the car, and then I "driove". Looking at different complex wheel designs just turns me on. Its not the driving, actually I have amost no interets inc ars and I do nopt own a car nor do I drive (and have no need to do so, btw), its the gadget itself. I just like HOTAS things and the technology behind such things. That would turn me probably more into an engineer than driver.


However, I love to drive racing, in sims.


I do not like alcoghol-free beer, tastes not good. I do not like white beer, tastes awful. But I like acohol-free white beer, and prefer it over normal alcoholic beer. You see the pattern. :D

Those are really nice wheels. Maybe one day I'll move on from my red Momo. Maybe! But yeah, it would be nice to move forward to this century.

Me too. I'm still running F1 2021, several seasons deep in a career. Great sim.

But just before Christmas I had an inspired moment. I was on Steam, having a bash about, looking for a new game to carry me through my Christmas break. I zeroed in on Forza Horizon 5. I had bought FH4 for my son and his X Box, but hadn't played the series myself. He also plays NFS, The Crew, Drive Club so I knew what to expect in a general sense. We had a lot of fun doing head to head racing in hot hatches in Drive Club.

So I took the plunge on FH5, reviews are excellent and it looked like fun. And I really like it. I've dropped a couple hundred hours in it already, have nearly 400 cars and every single Ferrari in the game!

It's leaning toward the arcade side of course, but the driving feels great. The performance modification and chassis setup options are extensive, deeper than what you get in F1 2021 anyway. I really like the sprint racing (point to point) and most of the content really. The blend of solo and MP is in a great place. A fun game that I'm glad I took a chance on. For a purist sim-head racer it's a shift, but I'm having a blast with it. It looks fantastic, runs great and there's lots to do. Over 500 cars, and the game just throws them at you.


My main whip, Ferrari 458 Speciale


https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.p...458sSmoked.jpg

Why not? Myself, I too have somewhat shifted a bit from ultra-realism to immersion, meaning: if the immersion works nevertheless, it can deceive you over the lack of ultra-realism. I have become more relaxed about "realism".

The only thing I find difficult to forgive, is lame AI. I rate RR's AI as the best, but over the past year or so I red a lot of good about the new AI they develop in iR. too, that it is a competent rumble-raiser, but also errs, like a human. But I do not know iR, by idea and design its not for me. I have more stuff to drive than I could frequently drive anyway... :) Don'T need more.