This is a dedicated thread to list all the incorrect models
 

If you find any pushlished SH3 models that has been labeled to be a certain ship or class but do not match historical data please list them here.


Only the appreance of the 3D model is to be exam here,other text based parameter e.g. tonnage,draft,armor,renow,roaster does not count.


Format should be:


Picture of the 3D model,Parameters of the model


Picture of the real ship,Parameters of ther real ship,Description of the real Ship,Links extras etc.


Explaination of the mismatch.:Kaleun_Salute:

Good! We recognize, but what about the Campaign files?
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/ima...n_Confused.gif

We can start an another thread for that. But the problem is,it is extreme difficult to track down all the ship when and where.So most the campaign file is small amount of historcal and large amount guessing not even to mentiong those random layer no way those are correct at all.


However there are some intorlerable errors:
Unit appear earlier that histroy
Aixes ship used by the allies vice versa
Aircraft partrol at night or have patrol distance of 5000km something
These are the ones I can think of for now.

Model Incorrect Empire (CAM) Ship
 

Ok Here come the 1st defendend,


M35B = Empire Ship
M36B = Empire CAM Ship

This is the Model
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...re_Ship_3D.png





https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...AM_Ship_3D.png


MaxSpeed=13 Length=147 Width=18.1 Mast=30.1 Draft=6.9 Displacement=6850


These are the real ones:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...MrZ6XJc-XL.jpg
EMPIRE BALFOUR - Cargo - Type Y7 - 7201GRT/9640DWT - 136.5 x 17.1 - 1944


https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...xd3sbwc-XL.jpg

EMPIRE BARDOLPH - Cargo - 7017GRT/10280DWT - 136.1 x 17.2 - 1943




Empire Ship have all kinds of classed and dimensions however this type is quite consistant build around 1941 onwards hundreds of them.The average length is 132m width 17m draft 8.2m
The model has about 15 meter longer in length and 1 meter wider and 1 meter shallow,the tonnage is also under estimated.You might argue that are you certain there isn't a longer Empire Ship? The thing is the longer Emire Ship looks like this:


https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...XqpLRFw-XL.jpg


EMPIRE CAPTAIN - Pass/Cargo - 9875GRT/11975DWT - 151.6 x 19.6 - 1944


A longer Empire Ship is usually a tanker or need an extra kingpost.Hundreds Empire Ship scaned the result is conclusive.

Model Incorrect Pryo Ammunition Freighter
 

AMM = Pryo Ammunition Freighter
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...xh/Pyro_3D.png
Model Parameter
ClassName=AMM UnitType=102 MaxSpeed=15 Length=167 Width=15.8 Mast=35.2 Draft=8.8 Displacement=7025 RenownAwarded=370


Only two ships of this class

http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/05/09050111.jpg
USS Pyro (AE-1)

Displacement 11,000 t.(lt) 14,110 t.(fl)
Length 147.24 m Beam 18.31m Draft 8.10m Speed 16 kts.


http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/05/09050205.jpg


USS Nitro (AE-2)


Displacement 11,000 t.(lt) 14,110 t.(fl)
Length 147.47m Beam 18.61m Draft 8.10m Speed 16 kts.


Conclusion: This one is not even marginal resemble the real ship. The top configuration is wrong (model KKKMF - real MKKKMF) the dimension is wrong (by almost 20 meters!) the details are not even close.Strick out of register:/\\chop

Model Incorrect Chatham Hospital Ship/Troop Transport
 

CHH = Chatham Hospital Ship
CHT = Chatham Troop Transport

UnitType=103 MaxSpeed=15 Length=167 Width=12.3 Mast=37
Draft=9 Displacement=5640
RenownAwarded=300/-8000


Here Are the Models



https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...hathamH_3D.png


https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...hathamT_3D.png




Here is the real ship:
https://uboat.net/media/allies/merchants/am/chatham.jpg

Name Chatham Type: Steam passenger ship Tonnage: 5,649 tons Completed1926 - Newport News Shipbuilding & Dry Dock Co, Newport News VA

Owner: Merchants & Miners Transportation Co, Baltimore MD Homeport: Baltimore Date of attack: 27 Aug 1942 Nationality: https://uboat.net/media/images/flags...d_states_s.png American


Building Sheet of Chatham:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...uild_Sheet.png


First of all the Parameter of the Model is completely wrong, the measured out come is as follows:
Length=140 Width=19.4 Mast=38.5 Draft=7.8

For ship size of this the displacement should be above 8000 even 10000.

It didnt say which Chatham it was moddelled after in the file but there isn't many passenger ship called "Chatham" during WWII and It can't be coincident that they all labeled 5640 ton GRT.So this has to be the one it was after ,it just moddeled very poorly.Another unqualified ship model.:/\\x:

Model Incorrect Whale Factory Ship
 

This Ship
NCVW= Converted Whale Factory Ship


The Modle

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...Factory_3D.png


Real Ship:



https://i.imgur.com/Em5Cb35.jpg
Tonan Maru No. 2 - 1942


https://uboat.net/media/allies/merch...rn_empress.jpgSouthern Empress



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ctory_ship.jpg
Svend Foyn


Notes:Convert Whale Factory Ship is not one particular class of ship but rather a whole range of ships sharing similar design and fuction.It is usally converted from a large tanker or cargo ship ,therefore the name "converted", into factory ship that process catched whales.Some of the distinct feature they usually have are a opening chute with ramp channel,so that the fish worker can drag cathed whale on to the ship, and split funnels in the back.This model features none of that.An interesting ship to add to the fleet however I must regret to say this model quality is rather poor.

Model Incorrect Dserschinski Destroyer
 

This Ship
NDD_SU1=Type Dserschinski Destroyer


3D Model
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...h/Novik_3D.png


Real Ship
http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/03/217/03217005.jpg
Novik


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-Frunze_01.jpg
Frunze
http://www.shipbucket.com/drawings/3144/file



Bespokoyniy

http://www.shipbucket.com/drawings/5450/file
Izyaslav


Notes: All the real ship shows crew quarters at the base between no.2 and no.3 funnels however the models shows between no.1 and no.2.The ship bridge is unrealistic large which mean no one can walk from the font deck to the rear deck without entering the bridge,it is unlikely any real ship will design like this.


Suggest replace this model with

DDNovik_3 = DD Novik ;made by Dagon, Vaa which represents a better model

Model Incorrect Flottenbegleiter
 

Ftboot=DE Flottenbegleiter ;or German F-Class Fleet Escort


The Model
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag.../Ftboot_3D.png


Profile from real design
http://www.shipbucket.com/drawings/6517/file
F1


http://www.shipbucket.com/drawings/6508/fileF2


http://www.shipbucket.com/drawings/6523/file
F3


Concludsion: Absolute cheap and makeshift work ,yet included by many super mods.Using exsiting DE Buckley base and a borrowed funnel to pretend to be a new ship model.
Noticable differences: Buckley has a flush foward up tilt deck while Flottenbegleiter is stepped.Flottenbegleiter has higher mast Buckley has larger bridge. Flottenbegleiter should be 76m in length while Buckley is 93m.There shouldn't be a seperate weapon platform in the back for Flottenbegleiter.Both funnels should be relative same high with small differences.

Model Incorrect Vorpostenboot
 

This Ship


NHPB=Vorpostenboot PB


The Model



https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...w_wxh/NHPB.png


Real Ship


https://www.marhisdata.nl/image.php?...2e5766c9&opt=5


V102
http://www.shipwrecked.eu/norway/aag...sel/mosel2.jpg

V1605


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...NoMS_Trygg.jpg

V5501


http://www.german-navy.de/pics/krieg...postenboot.gif
General Drawing


Note: Vorpostenboote (outpost boats)is not a one class of ship rather it is a mixer of ships from small merchant to whale killers to captured minesweepers even flower-class covette.But the problem is the model is already indentified as "Cherokee Class Fleet Tug Boat" ,see my other post here and there is no indication that this boat has ever been captured by the Germans.

Model Incorrect German Auxillary Cruiser
 

This Ship


NHSK or NAMC = German Auxiliary Cruiser or German Merchant Raider


No idea who made this model



The Model



https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...ow_wxh/HSK.png

Real Ship Blue Print

https://www.the-blueprints.com/bluep...ry-cruiser.png
Orion HSK-1






https://www.the-blueprints.com/bluep...ry-cruiser.png

Pinguin HSK-5



http://www.shipbucket.com/drawings/6307/file


HSK-2 Atlantis


http://shipbucket.com/drawings/6315/file
HSK3 Widder

http://www.wardrawings.be/WW2/Images...n/Kormoran.jpg




Note: There was an already identified model for HSK-2 and HSK-5 see my other post here . It's Ok to add another more detailed model but which one was it after?
It can't be Pinguin or Altantis because these two have funnel stationed a bit backwards alose have larger bridge.If it isOrion or Widder then its kingposts and ventilator position doen't match.All other HSKs' dimension differ too much from the model.Also the gun postion is incorrect.Those merchant raider appears to have flush deck actually have guns positioned at lower deck with side walls to cover their profile.When engaging enemey those walls were lowered to expose the weapon.

How about this?
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...ostcount=15138

Wasn't this a civilian large cargo (NACA3) derived from (nearly identical) Gerome73's Pinguin "NACA" commerce raider (who had different funnel and funnel position, open hatch with unmonted scout plane, semi hidden guns, fake neutral livery and others features) ?

Best regards,
Vd

Edit: original model i'm refering was featured in this video i find on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRM5L2FaHiI

The one showing in the video are the correct ones showing reasonabley match to either Pinguin or Atlantis.Only the one I have doesn't seems right they using the same base but the details are different.Dont know who borrowed who's work.


I think it is named NACA3 in some of the SH4 MOD.I dont play SH4 dont know where excatly where it came from.Again I couldn't find any match for even as a cargo ship.Ship size of this must have a tracable preference to it,otherwise consider remove it out of the fleet.

Yes, those are the right models

First one being Pinguin or Altantis.
Second one is Komet

I am the creator of thee empire ship model. How dare you criticize! :wah:

Just kidding. :D Actually I hate that model. It's kind of like calling your own child ugly, but anyway....lol!

The model was created more than 10 years ago, when I was a new modeler. Back then were the "old days" of SH3 modding. Not many websites, not many research materials, and not much experience with modeling tools. The result? Crude-looking ships, with inaccurate features.

I will say that my old friend AG124, who created many of the other early modded ships, did great work with the materials we had back in the day. Sadly he has not posted on Subsim recently (he was studying law and very busy after about 2007). If he had continued modding he would have definitely produced marvelous results. Salute to him! :Kaleun_Salute:

I did replace the Empire freighter with an improved model around 2009; unfortunately, it was never as popular as the old inaccurate model because it came out after the most popular supermods.

The good news is that work on my WWI mod is winding down at last, and my next project will be the Merchant Fleet Mod II for SH3 and SH4. That mod will aim to provide a new Empire Ship - in fact, new vessels to replace all of the mediocre ones I've made in the past. Plus a lot of new features & tricks to make sinking merchant ships much more interesting.

Anyway, good criticism, and carry on! :up: I hope to have your input when this new project starts (if you're interested).

I am so sorry,but this needs to be done
 

I knew you would be upset about this :p2: so would the other ship modellers.But it has be done.I am in the process of identifiy each every ship model in current SH3 database,give them proper name, assign them to the right contry ,make sure they show up in the right place at right time.Eventually making sure all registered ship models were real ships that did entere service during WWII and a leaset a few doezen individual record under each class.


It is also important too to do this so that sub fans and mod builder can have something to refer to when selecting new mod-what ship are good quality what ship you might think twice.They all looks good at first sight untill years later you find out you been playing with fake ships the whole time.


Those Empire Ship and CAM Ship isn't that bad though,very fat and juicy,love to sink them all the time:har:, just a little over tolerance of errors,plays a major role in the merchant fleet and that is why it is important to get them right.Good to know you are continuing working on it.


I am no ship modeller myself dont have that artistic skill but I can help check everything else goes alright.


Keep up good work,:salute:Salute!

He was joking with you, relax.

It's all OK! We are kidding with each other. I appreciate the criticism. :up:

Another thing I have started doing that I didn't do before is using a "ruler" while modeling. Back in 2006-2008 when SH3 modding started, a lot of ships pretty much used guess work for length/width/height. For my WWI mod Wolves of the Kaiser I measure how many scale feet/meters a ship is in wings3d. I will do the same thing for all new WWII merchant ships. This is a good way to avoid strange-looking ships that are too thin/fat.

Model Incorrect KGN Large Cargo
 

This Ship:
NKGN = Large Cargo
also declared as
NACP = HSK-5 Pinguin


The Model:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...ow_wxh/KGN.png


It is documented is LSH3_V5_Handbuch:
"Bei der Suche nach einem geeigneten „Spenderschiff“ für mein Hilfskreuzerprojekt bin ich auf die Akita-Maru aus SH4 gestoßen, welche von Molke2005 nach SH3 importiert wurde. Das Problem nur: sie ist mit 102 m Länge viel zu kurz. Aber die Form des Rumpfes und der Aufbauten entsprachen weitgehend der des Hilfskreuzers „Pinguin“ (HSK 5/Schiff 33)."



So basicly it is a streched version of Akita Maru with other borrowed componet to represent HSK-5 Pinguin.Fairly straight forward you can tell this is NOT the ship, see my previous post.Then I looked in to merchant ship database to see if I can find large merchant which looks like it so I can register under this ship model,couldn't find any.


This is the problem when you making new ship models by largely borrow componet from other ships,it doesn't looks like any body.:nope: