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-   -   Mark 16 wake (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=247008)

Bubblehead1980 10-13-20 07:46 PM
Mark 16 wake
 
Trying to make the Mark 16 in TMO have no wake since understand is in real life torpedo was wakeless. Someone once made it wakeless visually but ships could still detect it (defeats purpose) and want to remedy this. Have tried but seems messed things up somehow, CTD or does not show up at all. Anyone?

While none were actually used in war, the torpedo was included in the sim, might as well use it. Believe for high cost of renown, the additional explosive power combined with long range and no wake would add to the late war play in the sim. Kind of a waste to use torpedo at long range in daytime or shooting through the screens since wake gives it away, targets change speed course etc. Especially against the convoys on China coast.

Gray Lensman 10-14-20 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980 (Post 2700724)
Trying to make the Mark 16 in TMO have no wake since understand is in real life torpedo was wakeless. Someone once made it wakeless visually but ships could still detect it (defeats purpose) and want to remedy this. Have tried but seems messed things up somehow, CTD or does not show up at all. Anyone?

While none were actually used in war, the torpedo was included in the sim, might as well use it. Believe for high cost of renown, the additional explosive power combined with long range and no wake would add to the late war play in the sim. Kind of a waste to use torpedo at long range in daytime or shooting through the screens since wake gives it away, targets change speed course etc. Especially against the convoys on China coast.

Are you confusing this with the Mk18 electric torpedo? The Mk16 was essentially a remake of the Mk14 using the same propellent, hydrogen peroxide. The Mk18 was a wakeless electric torpedo modeled after captured German electric torpedoes

Bubblehead1980 10-16-20 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Lensman (Post 2700838)
Are you confusing this with the Mk18 electric torpedo? The Mk16 was essentially a remake of the Mk14 using the same propellent, hydrogen peroxide. The Mk18 was a wakeless electric torpedo modeled after captured German electric torpedoes


No, talking about Mark 16. Mark 14 was powered by a wet heater steam turbine, left a visible bubble wake. Mark 16, while a remake in many ways of the Mark 14 was powered by hydrogen peroxide, which have read in the past left little to no visible wake. In the game it has the same wake as Mark 14 and 23, making it really not worth the cost once available. Since in the sim there is no gray area, they see the wake or do not, would rather it not have one. Issue is when fixed it long ago, enemy ships still spotted the Mark 16 without a visible wake, but they still saw it. So tried some fixes, clones but did not work.

ETR3(SS) 10-16-20 08:27 PM
Mk 16 definitely leaves a wake as it uses a combustion engine.

Bubblehead1980 10-16-20 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ETR3(SS) (Post 2701180)
Mk 16 definitely leaves a wake as it uses a combustion engine.
Makes sense, but have read it left very little or no wake. Would that be inaccurate?

KaleunMarco 10-16-20 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980 (Post 2701182)
Makes sense, but have read it left very little or no wake. Would that be inaccurate?
the only thing that i can think of to convert the Mk16 to act like it has no wake is to borrow the wake data from the Mk18. i believe that data is stored in the Torpedoes_US.dat file although i cannot find the parameter that controls the visible wake. my eyes are crossed at comparing the Mk16 to the Mk18. :o:o:o

ETR3(SS) 10-17-20 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980 (Post 2701182)
Makes sense, but have read it left very little or no wake. Would that be inaccurate?
I would say so, yes. Though I am interested if you run across that source again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaleunMarco (Post 2701183)
the only thing that i can think of to convert the Mk16 to act like it has no wake is to borrow the wake data from the Mk18. i believe that data is stored in the Torpedoes_US.dat file although i cannot find the parameter that controls the visible wake. my eyes are crossed at comparing the Mk16 to the Mk18. :o:o:o
The entry in the dat file is linked to a ShipWake entry in the sim file. There are 6 US torpedoes and only 4 entries for a ShipWake, remove a ShipWake entry and you remove it for in game.

propbeanie 10-17-20 09:20 AM
NavWeaps Torpedoes of the United States of America - World War II
"The Westinghouse version of the captured German G7e. Had the advantage of being trackless..."
I thought the 18 was wakeless in TMO, as well as FotRSU?? I haven't been watching them very closely lately though... :roll: - I am not certain of the enemy Visual AI and their acuity for picking up the torps though, since they still "dodge" the wake-less... like superman, able to use their X-Ray vision, or maybe their super-hearing ability as soon as they are fired... ??

Gray Lensman 10-17-20 10:36 AM
Interesting read here: (original Mk16 could go much faster than 46 kts)



http://www.uss-irex.info/docs/doc-69.html

Gray Lensman 10-17-20 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ETR3(SS) (Post 2701180)
Mk 16 definitely leaves a wake as it uses a combustion engine.

The newer Mk48s use an internal combustion engine. Do they leave a wake?

KaleunMarco 10-17-20 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Lensman (Post 2701268)
The newer Mk48s use an internal combustion engine. Do they leave a wake?
not my area of expertise but.....didn't we lose the scorpion because of a torpedo battery issue? i realize that the scorpion was not carrying the the "newer" -48 but the -48 has been around a long time.

ETR3(SS) 10-18-20 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Lensman (Post 2701268)
The newer Mk48s use an internal combustion engine. Do they leave a wake?
Haven't seen one running on the surface but I would presume so. Not that it would matter if it left a wake or not as the launch transient and the torpedo itself would make enough noise to be picked up by sonar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaleunMarco (Post 2701283)
not my area of expertise but.....didn't we lose the scorpion because of a torpedo battery issue? i realize that the scorpion was not carrying the the "newer" -48 but the -48 has been around a long time.
One of the many postulated reasons was the battery from a Mk 37 torpedo. I believe the leading credible reason was a hydrogen leak from the ships battery that ignited and caused an explosion.

KaleunMarco 10-18-20 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ETR3(SS) (Post 2701253)
The entry in the dat file is linked to a ShipWake entry in the sim file. There are 6 US torpedoes and only 4 entries for a ShipWake, remove a ShipWake entry and you remove it for in game.
thank you for this hint. i have been trying to figure out wakes for quite some time.
:Kaleun_Salute:

KaleunMarco 10-18-20 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ETR3(SS) (Post 2701253)
The entry in the dat file is linked to a ShipWake entry in the sim file. There are 6 US torpedoes and only 4 entries for a ShipWake, remove a ShipWake entry and you remove it for in game.
let me ask you this, since you are adept enough to know about torpedo wakes.:D

i am playing We Dive at Dawn and would like to add the Mk27 to the only torpedo available which is the Mark 16. there is only one sub type available, the Triton class.
i've ensured that the Mk27 is available in the Triton.upc and i have added the torpedo into the Ammunition.upc.
the Torpedos_US files are the same as in Stock-SH4 so there was nothing to add/change there.
the Mk27 will display in the torpedo selection screen while we are in port so i can add it to the inventory.
however when i actually fire it, SH4 goes CTD.
clearly, i am missing at least one more item.
any help you provide will be appreciated.
:Kaleun_Salute:

Bubblehead1980 10-18-20 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ETR3(SS) (Post 2701253)
I would say so, yes. Though I am interested if you run across that source again.

The entry in the dat file is linked to a ShipWake entry in the sim file. There are 6 US torpedoes and only 4 entries for a ShipWake, remove a ShipWake entry and you remove it for in game.
I am searching for it, it was over five years ago, had it bookmarked but lost that when old pc crashed. Could have sworn it was navweaps but checked it already.

Surely, the wake would not be as noticeable as say a Mark 14?

Gray Lensman 10-19-20 02:17 PM
I did some searching in regards to the Mk 16 wake and came up empty. However, it's propulsion system did in fact differ from the Mk 14 in that the Mk 14 used a wet heater steam turbine and the Mk 16 used a Hydrogen Peroxide (Navol) turbine, so it's quite possible the Mk16 wake was diminished in comparison to the Mk 14. I tried searching out "Navol", and "Hydrogen Peroxide" turbines separately with No Joy.


I did run across some side facts that were interesting. One, being the Mk16 had the largest explosive charge of any torpedo designed and was used in ASROC launchers post WW2. The second being that even though the Mk16 were designed near the end of WW2, none were ever used during WW2.

Nisgeis 10-31-20 12:49 PM
Is there another torpedo which exhibits the same behaviour you want, US or Gemran? It will be something in the .dat .sim or (more unlikely) .zon file probably.

ETR3(SS) 11-01-20 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaleunMarco (Post 2701467)
let me ask you this, since you are adept enough to know about torpedo wakes.:D

i am playing We Dive at Dawn and would like to add the Mk27 to the only torpedo available which is the Mark 16. there is only one sub type available, the Triton class.
i've ensured that the Mk27 is available in the Triton.upc and i have added the torpedo into the Ammunition.upc.
the Torpedos_US files are the same as in Stock-SH4 so there was nothing to add/change there.
the Mk27 will display in the torpedo selection screen while we are in port so i can add it to the inventory.
however when i actually fire it, SH4 goes CTD.
clearly, i am missing at least one more item.
any help you provide will be appreciated.
:Kaleun_Salute:
Sorry it took me so long to get back. You need to edit the entry in the weapons.upc as well for the torpedo tube used under AmmoTypesAccepted=.

KaleunMarco 11-01-20 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ETR3(SS) (Post 2704183)
Sorry it took me so long to get back. You need to edit the entry in the weapons.upc as well for the torpedo tube used under AmmoTypesAccepted=.
yeah, the Mk27 was there already.
and i copied the Ammo.UPC entry from Stock.
i updated the Submarine.UPC to make it available.
The US_Torpedo.Sim, Zon already had the entries because the Brit subs are sailing under the SH4-US Subs models.

i am missing something simple.

THANKS for your help!
:Kaleun_Salute:

Brightstar6 06-01-22 05:09 PM
No torpedo wake
 
If you want wakeless torps just go to your data/misc/torp wake..And delete it..Works for me..:D:up:


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