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- - Obamacare (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=207870)

Don't really care to debate it, just wondering, the govt will start collecting fines from those that opt out, where is this money going? I would assume it's to fund medicare/caid since several million will be joining in, but can't find anything on it. If they are collecting another tax, the question is how will it get spent. I've heard talk of SS and medicare being in a lock box before so congress wouldn't touch it, but we know it all got spent on stupidity.

The fines aren't much 2014, but by 2016 they really get up there, about $700 per adult,$300 per kid, quite a chunk for a married couple with a few kids.

Looking on a few forums, poor that have to buy even cheaper insurance, the deductibles are so high, 5-10K, they could hardly use the insurance their being forced to buy.

No, I don't care for Obama. I doubt he cares for me either, but I haven't made enough noise for him to say anything one way or the other. I don't think he's worried though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead (Post 2120936)

the govt will start collecting fines from those that opt out, where is this money going?

I don't know, but it sounds like a protection racket to me, kind of like property taxes.

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I've heard talk of SS and medicare being in a lock box before so congress wouldn't touch it, but we know it all got spent on stupidity.

I read an article years ago that said Congress can't touch SS anyway. Social Security, on the other hand, can "lend" money to Congress of their own volition, which makes them look good. Congress pays the interest, which makes them look good, and SS is broke, which is not good for us.

Quote:

The fines aren't much 2014, but by 2016 they really get up there, about $700 per adult,$300 per kid, quite a chunk for a married couple with a few kids.

So the people Federal Health Care is supposed to help, the very poor, not only still aren't getting help but are now in debt to the government for fines they can't pay. I'm sure I'm missing something, but that's how it sounds to me.

Quote:

Looking on a few forums, poor that have to buy even cheaper insurance, the deductibles are so high, 5-10K, they could hardly use the insurance their being forced to buy.

Oh, I see you've already covered it. Sorry. I'm sure you're missing something too. It can't be that bad.

I've heard that a couple of States have good health care systems. While I'm not against this in principle, it's my firm belief is that this is not what we created our Federal Government for. But now I'm straying into your "don't really care to debate it" area, for which I apologize and will stop now.

Exactly, it's all big joke.The money will no doubt be used to fund more waste. I no longer have health insurance since turned 26, not working while in school.I graduate in in the spring, hopefully can find a job with insurance, unless that is gone and have to get a substandard obamacare plan.Until and employed and have/afford insurance I will hold off.Absolutely will not be forced to buy insurance as the law is illegitimate but will stay away from the debate.They can fine me, I won't pay.Hopefully can stay under radar, if they do send a letter, I have an idea of what my response will be, it involves the letters F and O.

Now that some one have posted a thread about this issue I can post a google translated article from a danish newspaper(politiken.dk)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Politiken

Americans' ignorance threatens Obamacare
Uninsured Americans have no idea that they can get help from Obamacare

Barack Obama made his controversial healthcare reform approved by the Supreme Court, but the real challenge may well be to get it convinced the American people about its virtues

Many in fact has no idea that the so-called Obamacare can help them

It may ultimately mean that the whole system is not going to function properly

Eight out of ten uninsured for nothing
78 percent of the 30 million uninsured Americans, which is likely to obtain support through Obamacare, do not even know what they can get out of the system. According to a study from the democratic public opinion institute Lake Research Partners

Right now many states in deciding how they will participate in the system to ensure that uninsured Americans have access to health care. In many places, however, the system is unpopular

An average of polls shows that 50 percent of Americans are in favor of wind Obamacare again. 44 percent want to keep the reform, figures from Real Clear Politics.

If it ends up getting sign up when registration opens 1 October next year, it can lead to more expensive insurance. The system has been built in many entries.

Many are confused over the reform
During the just ended election campaign there was a great battle over whether ObamaCare violated the U.S. Constitution. It meant very little discussion about how the system actually works.

41 percent of voters describe themselves as 'confused' about the new healthcare reform. According to a study by the Kaiser Family Foundation conducted in October.

The government's attempt to inform Americans about health reform meets fierce opposition from Republicans in Congress, who accuse the government of using taxpayers' money to promote special interests

Medical Organizations will inform citizens
This will now get supporters of the system outside the government to put campaigns started. Under the slogan 'Join U.S. are a number of associations, among others, the American hospital association, AHA, and a number of medical organizations.

They are afraid that those who most need the system, know least about it.

"It is vital that people who want to get the benefits (of Obamacare, ed.), Hear about the new insurance coverage and get to know how to sign up," said Rachel Klein, who heads the Register United States, Washington post.

Inhabitants missing or distorted knowledge is troubling, she says. It was especially clear when Register United States a few weeks ago did focus group studies among uninsured Americans.

However, when asked whether they had heard of a requirement that they must buy health insurance, shot their hands. But when they were asked if they had heard of anything that will make these insurance cheaper for them, said none of the 31 participants yes

ObamaCare leaves 18,600,000 uninsured
In the coming months, Sign U.S. begin advertising campaigns to get the uninsured to sign up. They will probably focus more particularly on the populous states of Texas and Florida, where a total of 10 million people are uninsured, but where states did not provide information on Obamacare.

Currently, 48.6 million U.S. residents without health insurance. Congressional Budget Department estimates that 30 million will be covered when Obamacare takes effect.

18600000 In other words remain uninsured. About a quarter of these are illegal immigrants who are not covered by the reform

I'm sorry if there is some words or phrase you can't understand, I have used google tranlate all the way and have made a few correction.

When I read this article back in Nov. 2012 it made me think a lot.

Markus

All the part timers at my company were cut in hours, to the point of poverty.

Company don't wanna pay for Obamacare, and would rather saddle the workers, whos hours they killed, and force them to pay for their own, with, and I say again, reduced hours....

And you wonder why people hate the rich/corporations?

This Bill is signed and sealed by them, manipulated from a single payer system, to an insurance company boon.

Thanks to congress, and thanks to Obama for the zero balls he showed in pushing through the single payer, and not fighting the insurance company lobbyists, who want to keep their policies of overcharging, and not paying out.

Why are insurance companies on the stock market?

Seriously, once you hit public trading, your focus becomes the shareholder, and not the customer. Insurance used to be protection, now it is just another scam, chock full of fine print.

Which is fine if you are Walmart, or McD's, you can choose not to go there...

But I am forced to buy car insurance, and am vastly ripped off, forced to buy medical insurance, from companies who did nothing but jack up rates in the past 3 years, since this went through.

I live on the Jersey shore, ask us what we are going through with Sandy Damage and insurance companies here!?!

If you think this is the spineless Obama, and not the fact our government is bought and paid for by big Bussiness, then I got oceanfront property to sell you in the Czeck Republic.

How come people always trash the little man, and not the million/billion $ corporations, who refuse to provide a livable wage, or refuse to help in the social betterment of a nation as a whole.

No patriotism in bussiness anymore, none, the prole is expendable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc (Post 2121061)

Now that some one have posted a thread about this issue I can post a google translated article from a danish newspaper(politiken.dk)

I'm sorry if there is some words or phrase you can't understand, I have used google tranlate all the way and have made a few correction.

When I read this article back in Nov. 2012 it made me think a lot.

Markus

I understand the law perfectly.The whole "the public is just ignorant" is a propaganda campaign to put in place an excuse for it's likely failure.They, well we, know this monstrosity will not work, especially if those of us who can think refuse to bow down and sign up.I personally hope it causes nothing but a lot of problems so people can see how wrong it was, and his legacy will be what it deserves, in the gutter.This will also serve as a beacon/warning to future generations.I would have preferred the Supreme Court to not be tainted and ruled this law unconstitutional as it is, but Roberts was obviously intimidated, bribed, or something to switch his vote in what is likely the most "pulled out of my rear" legal decisions ever handed down.However, since this legal travesty occurred, I look forward to watching it fail.

Quote:

I understand the law perfectly.

:rotfl2:look an elephant juggling while riding a bicycle backwards.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman (Post 2121148)

:rotfl2:look an elephant juggling while riding a bicycle backwards.

While surrounded by jackasses doing the same thing.:rotfl2:

I agree with everything about obamacare

except the mandate - i should not be penalized and taxed for not buying into a health care program that those in power are exempt from

ditch that and im 100% loving it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead (Post 2120936)

$700 per adult

That's like what? Three months worth of insurance payments?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolferz (Post 2121173)

While surrounded by jackasses doing the same thing.:rotfl2:

:har::har: There goes another keyboard...

Quote:

Originally Posted by soopaman2 (Post 2121071)

All the part timers at my company were cut in hours, to the point of poverty.

No patriotism in bussiness anymore, none, the prole is expendable.

Looking in the jobs section now, the majority of jobs for hire are part time.

US corporations have no patriotism in a global economy. They serve no nation, can move at will to build where work is the cheapest. This creates mass wealth for the few, but cannot sustain a nation. It's the vulture mentality. Obamacare is nothing more than a handout to the elite insurance corporations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by August (Post 2121175)

That's like what? Three months worth of insurance payments?

For a family of 4, about $2000 per year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet (Post 2121174)

How can you love it? The law is already causing premiums to rise in many states and will so even more.The taxes in there, I think was 19 or 20 new taxes. Yet another entitlement we can not afford with the subsidies, now for sky high premiums. Then there is the mandate, at least you have a problem with that.The fact there were not riots in the streets over that mandate, shows what a hole the population of this country is in.The old America would have never stood for that type of garbage.Oh yes, businesses cutting hours for many employees, means less money, means more citizens in financial troubles, meaning more strain on the system and economic slowdown.

Sure, there are a few good things but overall is a garbage law that will harm our system.Of course the long term play is to get us to single payer.When private insurance becomes unaffordable for the vast majority of americans, the idiots in this country will think the evil insurance companies did it and will call for government style healthcare, like the NHS in the UK, which from what I understand is a nightmare.

There is a reason congress exempted itself from this monstrosity, they know it is crap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980 (Post 2121192)

There is a reason congress exempted itself from this monstrosity, they know it is crap.

Notwithstanding any other provision of the law, after the effective date of this subtitle, the only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and Congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are — (I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or (II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an Amendment made by this Act).”

Taken from Affordable Care Act aka Obamacare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead (Post 2121191)

For a family of 4, about $2000 per year.

Still way cheaper than the cost of an insurance policy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead (Post 2121194)

The loophole around this is the law permits employer to keep current coverage if able.The health insurance for congress and their drones(staffers) is staying the same from what I understand so they are in fact exempt.They keep their great health coverage while many people are being dropped due to this law and forced into the "exchanges" . That is the reality of the situation. Premiums are going up in most places and will skyrocket in coming years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by August (Post 2121196)

Still way cheaper than the cost of an insurance policy.

Also this:

When the individual mandate is fully phased-in, those who can afford coverage -- which is defined as insurance costing less than 8 percent of their annual income -- but choose to forgo it will have to pay either $695 or 2.5 percent of the annual income, whichever is greater.That fee would be once a year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by August (Post 2121196)

Still way cheaper than the cost of an insurance policy.

Not for a family. The problem again is even the cheapest insurance would equal or exceed the fines. Then you're left with a 10K deductible to pay.....Even for a lower middle class family, the deductible nulls the insurance.

Apparently in relation to post#7 I have to make an argument as to why what it addresses is stupid and not rely on it being patently obvious that it is stupid.
So here you go Sailor, just for you.
The document in question is large and complex, it contains lots of words which have very specific meanings.
It directly references a vast array of other lengthy complex documents covering a wide range of subjects and numerous different government departments, all of which also contain lots of words with very specific meanings.
The person in question has repeatedly demonstrated an inability to understand the meaning of very basic words.
Since much of this document is of a very legalese nature it also requires an ability with legal definitions as well as ordinary word definitions.
The person in question has also repeatedly demonstrated that even very basic legal definitions are beyond their ken.
On those points alone it is safe to say the claim that was made by bubblehead is utterly and unquestionably false, or to use the technical term ..... complete bull.

Numerous references are available on this forum which proves that to be true, if anyone is unfamiliar with any examples they need go no further than the first page of GT to get plenty of samples which prove it without any shadow of a doubt.

That should be enough, but as is my habit I will further the point with a question.
Throughout the States large numbers of well paid teams of top legal experts have been crawling through this document to try to get a grasp on not only the basics but all the intricate fine details and all their implications and ramifications. After all its a big issue with lots of big money involved.
Why are all these corporations paying all those lawyers to try and decipher the complicated maze of legislation if they could just hire bubbles who already understands it perfectly?:hmmm: