Bloomberg: Constitution ‘must change’ to give government more power
 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...on-must-chang/
Seriously? Helloooo slippery slope! I'm at a loss for words.


Side link discussing the matter on youtube:
N.Y. Mayor Michael Bloomberg: Constitution 'Must Change' to Give Government More Power (NRA news, just FYI.)

We are walking into very dangerous times in American government :nope:

What a bunch of whiners! Big Brother Bloomberg is right. We need new interpretations of the Constitution. It doesn't really mean you have a right to say what you want, or to meet peacefully, or to worship what you want (or don't).

It doesn't really mean the government can't come into your home and search for whatever it wants, whenever it wants.

It doesn't really mean you have a right to a fair trial, or a trial at all.

It's all in the interpretation.

Pretty inevitable, but this is just one guy. Of course, many more will feel the same way but that's to be expected.

What it boils down to is the trade off between liberty and security, every time someone blows something up or shoots something in America (or indeed in many other nations) the question is always asked 'Why wasn't this prevented?', or 'What can we do to stop this?' and now we've reached the point where no real further action can be taken without infringing on constitutional rights, so either the choice must be taken to accept the risk of further terrorist attacks or school shootings or accept the loss of constitutional rights, and it's easier to justify the prevention of deaths of children than it is to defend a document written over two hundred years ago.

So, generally speaking, the masses will lean towards greater security because a) they don't want to run the risk of being blown up or shot and b) they are told that these things can be avoided if they are willing to give up certain parts of privacy, after all...if you haven't done anything wrong, why do you need to be worried, as they will say.

Here comes the future...

It's unamerican.

I think it's interesting to see the rivalry of originalism vs. that of a living Constitution here.

Strictly going by a document written by a group of men who lived and died 250 years ago comes with certain problems. Technology has advanced so far beyond what the framers ever envisioned that you are forced to look at things in a different way. I think that's all Bloomberg's saying.

Gee I haven't noticed any increased security measures take effect in any of the past fifty years. We really need this to be even more intrusive and obvious. We need Robocop so not one bad thing can ever happen to anybody anywhere, anytime. Screw you Bloomberg!

The problem with your way of thinking, is that history repeats itself. Just because something happened a few hundred years ago, doesn't mean it can't happen again. People are still people, regardless of what technologies are, or are not, available to them. Mankind hasn't changed - at all.

The framers of our country, were far wiser then you are I. I reject the notion of a "living constitution". That's just power hungry politician double speak for, "Ill redefine things to how it best suits my agenda, in order to sidestep that damn Constitution and Bill of rights that is always getting in my way, so i get what i want. "

Well, i'll refrain from pasting in the usual Benjamin Franklin quotes. I for one, am not willing to give one iota of liberty for security. I feel very strongly about this. I would rather live as a free man with some element of danger to contend with, then live under big brother and have some government minder always sticking his nose up my ass.

I know the quote and would have put it myself but I've used it many times before so refrained like you. :03:
I agree with you, but you and I are becoming the minority in society, after all you only have to look at the amount of information available online on us already, particularly if you engage in online society like facebook or twitter (which if I had to hazard a guess I'd say that you did not). Now, it may be easy to rebuttal that with your non-compliance with modern online society that you are exempt from that, however you are in a minority, and with each passing generation that minority gets smaller. Within two generations posting your life story on facebook (or whatever the fad is then) will be a norm, and with things like google glasses it will be even easier to capture life moments and share them with the internet denizens.
Now, what does that mean in regards to privacy and rights in the real world, well as life and society takes the current restrictions as norm then there will be less blanching at the possibility of further restrictions, particularly if they are seen as being necessary for the greater good of society. Mark my words, soon there will be a small chip that you can have placed in your hand, it will open doors for you, start your car just my gripping the steering wheel in a certain way, you will be able to get on and off buses and trains without having to buy a ticket in advance, and you will be able to buy your shopping just by picking it up from the shelf.
It will be easy, convenient, and it will also monitor everywhere you go, to help find lost children and elderly relatives who have gone walkabout. Of course, some will say that "It's the mark of the devil" or that "the government is herding us like sheep" but they will be dismissed as 'Yubbas' and when no-one dies after using the chips, the convienience will override any fears of constitutional infringement or loss of privacy.

At the end of the day, convenience will triumph over security, history has shown us this much so far. By all means, resist, many will, but when we die, history will march on, and the youth will inherit the Earth.

I'd say that letting our gov't have too much leash is the reason most of this crap is occurring. We need a choke collar on that rabid dog. :har:

...and how dare someone interfere with the sacred cow of a sporting event! Corporate welfare is not amused.

Indeed. However relevant some quotations may be, like anything used too much, it starts to sound unoriginal, and in fact, starts to lose it's meaning.


Well, I disagree that we are a minority in our thoughts. I would submit that the current political division within the United states into "red" and "blue" states as evidence to the contrary. While i realize i'm generalizing, it is my thought residents of Blue states are more apt to trade liberty for security while those residing in red states are not.

As for facebook, or twitter, your right. I would never use such sites in any capacity. It has been my view since before the days of "geocities" and everyone was into making their personal web page or weblog, that putting too much personal information on the internet is a very bad idea. The reasons for that start on identity theft and branch outward from there. Suffice to say, "Homey don't play that".


Maybe, maybe not. Thought I do find myself drawing a metaphor to the intention behind things like The Colosseum in ancient Rome. It's whole purpose was to keep the Plebians happy and their minds off their troubles, less they would get upset and do things the rulling class wouldn't like. I'm not saying that technology, internet, toys, games etc are designed with that in mind, but the net effect (pardon the pun), is the same.

I have often wondered, were it not for computers, games, etc, diverting me, and any motivation and dedication i posses, what would I have accomplished? I have often thought back to wondering what it would be like in the before the advent of computers. (I grew up with computers, or is that, computers grew up with me? My first PC was an 8086 IBM clone). I think past generations accomplished much more with their lives without the diversions we have now. On a side note, have you seen this commercial? It disgusted me the first moment I saw it. It's like peoples whole lives centered on, and revolving around, stupid little electronic boxes.



You have a point about convenience. My wife is a self admitted "whore to convenience". Although, I think along the way though, there will always be people raising concerns about legal, ethical, or moral boundries.

Well, at the end of the day, we are all just dust and bones. When it comes to changes in our constitution, bill of rights, liberty, freedom, and everything that is important that makes up home to me, I will always resist. Not just for myself, but for my family. At the end of the day, I would rather go out fighting for what I believe in; at least then I can leave this world knowing I tried and did my best. To blatantly borrow Paton, "If a man does his best, what else is there?"

Jesus Christ...
The idiocy of this guy is unbelivable, the only way to truley beat terrorism is to not change a goddamn thing!
Do what this guy suggests and its Terrorists =1 America= 0.

More knee jerk reaction to what could possibly be more false flag BS.

If mister Bloomberg et al feel so insecure in their person, maybe they should find a new place to live. Perhaps Canada?

There is nothing more complicated than perception and perceiving a threat under every rock is nothing more than blind paranoia.

I guess it's time to start stocking up on the ammo and get myself an easy rider rifle rack for my pick up truck..:arrgh!:

Has technology advanced that much really? Could the Boston bombers did what they did in 1776? Sure: In the 17th century (100 years before the Constitution was written) repeating firearms already existed so in theory they could have had a shoot out with police. Gunpowder and bombs existed, books written in 14th century China explained how to make fragmentation bombs, so in theory they could have blown up a great number of people. Their ideology certainly existed, we would fight a war against its followers not soon after the ink was dry on the Constitution. The only differences is that they would have had to leave their house to acquire it all instead of sitting at a computer.

What Bloomberg is saying is not that he wants to make the country safer, he wants to exercise greater control over it. He could say that he wants the Government to track down those who indoctrinated, encouraged, and supported the bombers and bring them to justice (guess what it's easy people were saying 2 years ago they should look at the Mosque the bombers attended and how it was linked to fundamentalists); but he instead says we should give up our rights so the Government can protect us.

:yep:

It goes both ways and I think that politics don't really come into it as much as the sense of power that governing parties feel. After all, the Patriot act was put in through a red government and supported by red parties, so it's more of an individual thing than it is a political thing, after all I am sure that there were blues in favour of Patriot and reds against it.

I will confess that I am on both of the sites and indeed I did once have a geocities page (actually it was home-something to begin with before it went to geocities IIRC) but I am careful about what information I post. I once heard about a girl who posted everything she was doing on twitter, including when she was leaving for her holiday and then she was confused when someone broke into her house while she was on holiday.
Google Earth and Google Street view are another two examples of personal intrusions that weren't around ten or twenty years ago (although Earth probably was but only to military intelligence) and one has to wonder what the next stage will be, real time streaming Google Earth? I'd certainly enjoy looking at it, even if by doing so I am encouraging the loss of privacy of those I watched.
Completely true, the bread and circuses effect is very prevalent in todays society, if you were to ask the average American or Brit something about politics, they'd either go on a rampage based upon what the biased media has told them or they'll claim ignorance and ask if you have watched 'America/Britain's got Talent'.
On the other hand, technology has radicalised some political beliefs, and increased the spread of them, organisations like the Tea Party or the UKIP would have struggled to have gained the base that they have had without the ease of access to communications. Of course, consequently the focus on these radical groups by either side of the political media has only served to further discourage the average public member from getting involved in a political spectrum that seems to be dominated by 'nutcases'
Also true, the amount of reading and drawing that I used to do back before 24/7 broadband and Steam is vastly higher than I do now.
But yes, the age of electronics is throughly here, and if a 'Revolution' style event occurred and all the power went out, well...I know I would certainly struggle at first, but I would hope that I would make it through, but it would be tough. A book worth reading is 'One Second After' which is realistic to the point of being quite depressing how society would cope if the power went out tomorrow...and that was written in 2009, we've gone even further down the road of electronic dependency now.
This is true, but at the end of the day it will be a King Cnut style affair.

Well, America has made it thus far without becoming a police state, but I can understand the fear that it may unwittingly slide into one, a nation is only a few events short of it after all, however equally living a life paranoid of government intentions is equally self-destructive, not that I'm accusing you of such a thing, but there are people, as we both know, who are quite firmly in that camp and the rest of us can just shake our heads in disbelief in it. Still, a healthy mind that questions the decisions of government whilst not falling into the trap of paranoia is a good thing, sometimes governments do need a reality check...once upon a time they got that through voting, but I think that system has lost its effectiveness over the eras, but it's still better than the alternatives.

We DO need to change the way we interpret the Constitution. :yep:

We need to get back to the interpretation of the Constitution that puts limits on the powers of the Federal Government.

We need to reinterpret the Incorporation Doctrine to determine if it truly is in our best interest, and if so, properly define and place limits on it.

Absolutely we need to change the way we interpret the Constitution.

But I fear that this is not what Bloomberg meant. :nope:

Bigger government is not the solution
More powerful government is not the solution

Relevant readings for this topic.

LINK: On the Impossibility of Limited Government and the Prospects for a Second American Revolutio

LINK: War, Terrorism, and the World State

LINK: Reflections on State and War

LINK: Why Bad Men Rule

Don't worry, the government isn't after more power.

:shifty:

The problem lies in gaining consensus across America as to what the Constitution means, something which as we can see at the moment is just not happening. Depending on each persons agenda, they interpret it in different ways, like lawyers finding loopholes.
Makes me wonder how they managed to agree long enough to write it in the first place... :hmmm: