Civility in GT
 

“Civility costs nothing and buys everything.” Mary Worley Montagu


Things seem to be getting worse on GT. It is becoming rare that a thread is stated where someone does not end up making personal remarks, insulting comments, ad hominom attacks, and generally being rude. To make matters worse, other posters escalate the issue to new depths by responding in kind. :nope:


It is really taking the enjoyment out of many of the threads. :yep:


We need to lighten up. We are posting opinions on a video game website forum. How can anyone take any thing that seriously here? :D

It is great to disagree and awesome to learn different viewpoints, but not to bicker and attack. :nope:

Just a few suggestions:


If you disagree with an argument, attack the argument not the person.

If someone posts something that you find offensive, don't add to the offense by posting offensive stuff back at them. It does not equal things out. Let it go. No one is going to "win" here.

If there is someone you really don't like, don't read their posts. Nothing in the rules requires any post to be responded to or even read.

GT just seems to be getting worse every day.

Is it really so hard to be civil in postings?

Is it really so hard to ignore people who are uncivil in their postings?

“One's character is defined by his or her words and actions. To be treated with respect and kindness, one must follow the Golden Rule and extend respect and kindness to others. Not only does our conduct define us as individuals, but it also provides an example for others, especially our children. If we all practice respect and good manners, we can create a more civil and ordered society where a free exchange of ideas and opinions is valued.” - Bob McDonnell

Amen. As I said before, it always helps me if I mentally append my statements with ...here on this forum dedicated to video games. Provides me with all the prespective I need.

Oh dont even bother, nothing's going to change.

Timely and very well said. I couldn't agree more. I joined this forum because of the good vibe and friendly nature. Hope that continues.:yep:

Maybe not, but it is part of my job to cheerlead for positive change.

If the moderators engage in personal attacks then you can hardly expect the membership not to engage in them as well. Like in any forum it's the moderators who set the tone, and whether it's their "snarky comments" or uninvited psychoanalysis they do more damage to peace and civility than any other group of people posting here.

I think Neal should fire the lot and replace them with people who can manage to keep their personal feelings separate from their job. Then you might see an improvement here but until then it's just going to get worse.

i think people are just becoming more and more passionate - aggressive and defensive of their positions / arguments / beliefs.

when your freedoms, rights, beliefs, opinions, feelings, values etc feel like they are threatened or attacked, it is human nature to respond aggressively. even if it is supposed to be a civilized discussion.

additionally, being that there is a fair degree of anonymity on the internet, a person might be inclined to use a debate tactic or a string of words that they wouldn't ever really consider in a face to face discussion.

especially when the discussions involve politics, religion, core values etc

its not just a subsim thing either, the general topics of some of the other forums of which i am a member get just as bad if not worse. its come down to a point that discussion of politics or religion etc results in a warning, and eventually an outright ban of the offending individual. I personally think - speaking strictly as an American - that our nation is at a more divisive place in history than it has been since the civil war.

I had a former boss of mine turn away a man's business because of his political alignment. I have seen people disallow kids to play together because the other family was not the right political party for crying out loud. Thats just messed up.

so lets not go off thinking its a subsim thing, its just real life and its been that way for a long long time.

i would agree with this statement... though not all of them are guilty of it.

I agree that they set the tone, on the one hand you cant just expect them to roll over and take a lashing by the membership... on the other hand one expects that they would act with a certain degree of neutrality

not "Oh look its you with your normal BS" type comments

even if true, even if undeniable, i think its not really a Moderators place.

No, it isn't just a SubSim thing, but I would like to think that we could rise above that sort of thing. We're a remarkably civil forum with very few chronic troublemakers. When we, as moderators, have to ask people to dial it back it is usually because that person happens to be worked up at the time, or even had a bad day.

Neal has said repeatedly that he doesn't want people's speech restricted in terms of giving opinions, only tone. In that sense I think it is really helpful to remember that (1) we are on a gaming forum and (2) that person who you are discussing things with didn't wrong you. He or she may disagree with you, but that is not criminal. You have to live and let live, at least as it pertains to the microcosm that is SubSim.

Oh, and if a moderator calls you out on your behavior just tone it down. It isn't personal. We're just fighting fires.

Just the names.

I find the Ignore list helps to maintain civility when civility is otherwise unattainable. Using said list has kept me out of innumerous trollings, petty squabbles, flame wars, and general butt hurting.

I've only got one person on my ignore list

Yeah me too though there is a couple others I would add if I could.

I've got none on my ignore list. What does that say about reading things with a grain of salt and rising above the 'tone' of a post or the immaturity that exists in some threads.
I see a lot of comments posted purely to bait the other person. That is plain as day to see.

Now, if the person being baited with trolling attempts bites back then the person isn't any better than the Troller.

Let the mods do their job, if you want to have more power in who says what or where, apply to be a mod here.
If the application is not successful then unfortunately, or fortunately for those of us that do want to participate in the GT forum will either have to like it or lump it.
That's life.
Be a man and rise above the trolling and baiting that is, i admit becoming worse.
Yes, i've been gone for a while, but been here long enough to know and gauge what sort of community this is on Subsim.
I'ts a great community with some wonderful people onboard.
Let's rise up and be a little bit more mature about things.
This is not a gaming forum with 12-year-olds.

I tried using it before, but I always found myself thinking "oh man, what has this clown said this time...." and clicking "show post". I gave up. :rotfl2:

Oh **** you, you ****ing **** with a **** up your **** with **** ******* *** * *** ** ** *** ** ****** *** ** * * ***** ***** ** * *** ****

Oh wait... Yes, this I can agree with. I mean GT used to be a place to debate stuff, over the last year or so it has turned into a place where debate gets chucked randomly into an insult thread.

I very rarely venture into GT anymore, just due to the fact that almost any thread I open will not contain open debate it will just contain "oh you damn liberal scum!"
"Eat it you repbulican turd!"
Which brings me to another point, this is a predominantly american forum, so if somebody has an opinion that doesn't satisfy the "you're with us or you're against us" points that both sides bring up, it gets ignored.

This is a forum where in most places, these topics would be banned because of the friction they sometimes cause. We keep them open as discussion and debatable topics as the majority of people used to be able to do this. Now it's just a flame war that sometimes resembles 4chan.

Let's all remember, an opinion is an opinion. Just because you believe it doesn't make it more valid than any other persons. Also, if you're losing the argument for what you believe, petty name calling and sarcasm does you no good.

I could go on about this for ages but, I'll leave it there for now. Let's all show a little more respect for eachother and get the forums back to how they were. Healthy debate, not a random free for all for everyone to get their best one liner put downs in.

Edit: By the predominantly American forum part, I mean Republicans and Democrats, not the American people as a whole.

I'll have you know, that I am personally UN-OFFENDED by that post, sir!

Funny, I've migrated almost solely to it for the world opinion.

The written word often lacks intonation and inflection to a great degree and much of what we speak in type can be open to the perception of the individual reader. This can often be easily misconstrued. Except in cases of direct verbal attacks that use disparaging names or snide comments.

My supply sergeant in the army said it best;
"Insult can't be given unless taken."

Platapus has made many valid points of civility. Unfortunately they fall on deaf eyes when a reader has had a bad day at work, in traffic or his spouse is ragging on him and he is just spoiling for a fight.

Pissing and moaning can be expected more often than not so try not to take anyone's words too seriously.
It's always been my opinion that there are two subjects that will always ruin productive discourse... Politics and Religion. I try to steer clear of those.
In a society that breeds competition, we all want to win, even when we debate. Sometimes all we can do is agree to disagree and leave it at that.
If you really feel the need to verbally jump somebody, try my Ubirats in the Bilges thread. That one's a Sea Dog pile where anything goes and nothing is taken seriously. As for other discussions, try to remember that you shouldn't say something that would get you belted in the mouth if you stated it face to face with your adversary.:salute:

I believe the forum is roughly split between Americans and non-Americans.