"Auslandseinsatz"
 

That was the title of a German TV-movie that got broadcasted yesterday - and which I actually found surprisngly good. It tells of a group of German soldiers coming to Afghanistan, filled from top to bottom with well-meant idealism, who soon get consumed by the complex realities at location that finally destroys all illusions, beliefs, even friendships and lives. And no, there is no happy-end.

You can watch it in the ARD Mediathek here:

http://www.ardmediathek.de/das-erste...entId=12149816

The film has an age limit, therefore can be accessed only between 20:00 and 06:00 German time. German time is GMT+1

I recall that when linking to the Mediathek, some people from overseas reported they cannot access it. I do not know for which countries this is true. Try yourself. I know that the Mediathek has been accessed from people in France, Netherlands, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland for sure. Britain, Poland and Italy I have no info on. America seems to be an issue, and if so, probably Canada as well (other continent).

Nope, I can watch it just fine. Sadly my German is a bit rusty... fascinating subject, though! And given that it's a German film production about war, I know to expect no patriotic glory going on here. If there's one things Germans excel at, it's making the most anti-war films about war possible :D

Works here in the States, just checked it out for a bit. Will watch the whole thing if I can later. From what I saw, tropps arriving in a bus in Afghanistan seems a bit dangerous, armored troop carriers of some sort would be better I would think.
Movie comes in nice and clear, can't wait to see the whole thing. Needs more english sub titles though.:oops:

Has there ever been a German movie with a happy ending? :hmmm:

For this we have HOLYWOOD.

The plan and idea for the production started some years ago and bases on information they gathered from even earlier times. The German ROE probably always were schizophrenic, but in the earlier years, security was seen slightly more relaxed.

Movie was shot in Marocco, btw.

Yes. But a war movie being realistic should be uncomfortable and anti-happy ending. There never has been a war with a happy ending, and there never will be. Victory, maybe. But always at a high cost, and plenty of injustice done. Seen that way, a war movie without happy ending is almost a compliment for the screenplay writer.

The intention of the producing people - by their own commenting - was to make the film semi-documentary in style, so: sober, distanced a bit. So not to offer happy endings and easy solutions is even more logical, considering it is about the Afghan maze.

@Sky & the other Germans: hasn't there been a movie about German soldiers in Afghanistan that sparked the discussion about people coming home with PTSD, some 2 years ago? Or was it a documentary? I remember that our talk shows and media outlets suddenly put a focus on this topic after a film.

The ARD Mediathek is usually accessible without country restrictions - it's their policy, they normally have their stuff licensed worldwide. The cheapos from the commercial stations do have country restrictions though, not sure about the ZDF.

There was an epsiode of "Tatort", early 2011, that was about four veterans suffering from PTSD, but I cannot remember it anymore, though I saw it. Some time before, there was movie about the German mission in Congo. But again I do not remember it anymore, I seem to recall that it was not bad, but I am not certain.

Yes, thanks, Tatort is was, indeed: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatort:_Heimatfront
I saw the discussion as something important, as it was for the first time that this topic was put into the public spotlight. It was something people talked not about after our last war experience in '45 - they were just "Kriegszitterer" :-?

PTSD is a serious injury and should be recognized as that. It can downgrade and destroy lives - the veteran's, his social environment's, both mentally and physically as well. It's like a never-ending war.

The official number of wounded Allied troops in Iraq from 03 to today is close to 40.000 now, I think I read somewhere. If PTSD would be counted and recognized as a WIA as well, I am absolutely sure the number would spike clearly beyond the mark of 100,000 wounded. Numerically, I expect soldiers in hot warzone scenarios being effected by PTSD in the range from one in six to as many as one in four.

If the PTSD does not get diagnosed/recognized, it could become chronic and then leads to lasting personality changes and can lead to personality disorders and even serious psychosis. Different to the American DSM, the WHO's ICD has different diagnostic keys for the entry phase of a PTSD and a later chronification of it.

I can see why you Germans might see it that way but that really depends on the scope and subject of the war movie in question.

For example, the story of a Soldier who does his duty to his country serving honorably in a war, then afterward returns safely to his home and the loving arms of his family before going on to live a happy and full life is, by any realistic measure, a war movie with a happy ending.

Just ask some of the millions of our veterans from any of our wars throughout our history whether it was won, lost or tied, who did exactly that. Sure you'll find some who didn't have it work out that way but the overwhelming majority of them did and therefore their tales are far more "realistic" than any negative exception you may care to mention.

Of course there are German movies with happy endings, August.

Just think of the closing scene in the movie "Downfall", which is German comedy at its best with a happy ending:

"the young boy rides together with the pretty girl on her bicycle into the sunrise" :sunny::haha:?

Well said Skybird-I think so for every war. This happens sometimes in fiction too, contrast the ending of the Lord of the Rings films with Star Wars, no I'm serious. Both against really evil enemies (thouigh both with nuances, even Sauron in Tolkien's writings started out wanting to do good) but LOTR had a very bittersweet ending with a lot of loss and changes from the conflict. You see a little of that in US films outside of Vietnam films, notably Thin Red Line and Band of Brothers.

But that does not change that no war ever is fair, humane, just. It is inhumane, barbaric, filled with destruction and dying, and all too many innocents suffer dearly from it. Always. A given ending of a war might have been necessary as an objective to achieve, but it never is fair, happy, humane. That's why I say there are wars of needs and wars of desires, and the first must be accepted, but the latter should be avoided at all cost.

And that is not just a German issue, August. When your forefathers had their civil war, I think I read somewhere that most American families suffered casualties and lost loved ones. And even if it is no majority, it still were damn many families whose sons and fathers bled to death and whose wifes and daughters got raped or murdered. The outcome of the war, as an objective to be achieved, might have been necessary. Still, for those having been effected by the war, the end of the war brought relief that it was over. But no happy end.

Or to say it with LaoTse (and I use German since it is my own translation, I am not satisfied with any of the translations to German around, and I cannot put it in better words or adequately transport it to English):

Auch beste Waffen sind Zeichen des Todes,
Der Weise verächtlich meidet sie.
Er wendet sich ab von ihnen.
Die Freude erfüllt sein Leben im Frieden,
Die Trauer erfüllt sein Leben im Krieg.
Waffen sind nicht des Wesens Weise,
Nur gezwungen benutzt sie ein weiser Mensch,
Wenn es gar nicht mehr anders sonst geht.
Nichts weiß er von der Freude am Kämpfen,
Den Sieg zu lieben heißt mordfreudig sein.
Wer mordfreudig ist, ist außerhalb der Freude, zu Leben.
Nach dem Sieg ist der Truppe die Freude,
Des Feldherrn indes sei die Trauer,
Er begehe den Sieg wie eine Trauerfeier.
Töten heißt Trauer schaffen,
Wessen Handeln Trauer schafft,
Dem sei jeder Sieg wie ein Begräbnis.

Let people celebrate in relief that they survived it without own losses to their health, life, family, friends. But never ever mistake that with wars having happy endings. Every warrior is a gravedigger.

Millions of the victor did NOT return to home, it is not anyhow like e.g. this infamous propaganda painter Norman Rockwell depicts his idyllic world.

http://uploads7.wikipaintings.org/im...4.jpg!Blog.jpg


If anyone wins it is the weapon industries, and other war profiteers.

"The conquered mourns, the conqueror is undone" - they sure knew their wars.

A Thin Red Line is so much more than just a war movie. It's almost a religious meditation about so much more than just war. War is just one part of the roundely that "it" all is. I hold that film in very high esteem, it is one of my all time favourites, and the - by far - best of all of Malick's movies, imo.

Band of Brothers also was very good, though obviously setting the scope for a different fix. Although similiar in style and the visual way in which it was relaised to Private ryan, the one thing that imo makes Brothers better than Ryan is that Ryxan at the end has this Hollywood typical timing for a - though pathetic, which makes it even worse - happy ending, the P-47 I think it was sweeping in and cleaning the enemy, and the heroic Captain having given his life to acchieve this ending. Brothers just ran out at the end, showed a slow, nonsensational shift from combat to occupation and relative peace. - Indeed a very very good series, one of the best pieces about WWII ever shot. I find it remarkable that an American crew could ha<ve made a film about American "heroes" withgout either hacking away at them or gloryfying them, simply paionting them as humans without all that usual pathetic glory&patriotism posture on display that you usually expect from a Hollywood movie.

The BBC made a good and probably realistic movie about war as well, the Bosnia war. The film was called "Warriors", and is already a bit older. Sober, tragic, showing the inner conflicts of the British soldiers being eaten up by the impossible and even shameful situation the UN's idiocy had put them into. "Auslandseinsatz" reminded me of that a bit.

Armies' and soldiers' job is not to improve civilian infrastructure and to rebuild schools. Their business is to wage war when there is war, or to train for fighting a war when there is peace currently. Europe has forgotten that. The madnesses we got ourselves entangled in since the Balkan wars, is a direct result of this. The psychic conflicts the actors suffer from in "Auslandseinsatz", also is a result from this illusion. Maybe a well-meant illusion, but still an illusion. The part on "well-meant", actually means nothing in this, it causes no good effects. What causes effects, bad ones, is the illusion.

Yeah but even more millions did return home and lived full and happy lives afterward. The truth is that casualty rates, at least in my country, were about 1 in 15 overall. To listen to you guys one would think that was the survivor rate.

I'm not minimizing the horrible things that happen in war but to act like the worst experiences and later outcomes are the norm is just not realistic.

Having soldiered yourself, you should know that in that closed parallel society the military is (that is no matter of nationality), men tend to avoid talking about what they see as their weaknesses, and they avoid to remind or get reminded of what could happen to them. Appearing to be strong, tough, invincible, is the parole most live by, the boasting is meant to gloss over insecurity in the face of threat by death and injury, and I think this is a coping mechanism to deal with the negative sides of the job that in fact could get you traumatized, injured, crippled, killed. It probably has always been like this, with soldiers of all armies in all times.

It is said that racedrivers hate to be asked about the chance that they could crash and get killed.

Bomber pilots are said to not like being told how many people their bomb dropping killed on the ground.

It is not only about your own troops returning. It also is about the civilian population that inevitably get caught in the crossfire, and mostly suffers the lion's share of the suffering, wounding, killing. For your generation that starts with the Southern Vietnamese who were left behind and were held responsible by the victors for their cooperation with the US and the south, and the many villagers who got caught in the fighting and aerial bombardements, got killed by both sides. It goes on with the Iraqis who were confronted with the outburst of ethnic violence, old bills being settled, organised crime, state's death squads, torture, abduction industry (not mentioning supression of Christians, other Islamic sects, females in general). It then leads to the Afghans being left at the mercy - or lack of mercy - of the Taliban once the last troops have pulled out, they already are victims right now, and have been since years.

The losses of the civilians in all these and almost every other wars, outclasses that of the troops in scale and dimension. From WWII iover the 30-year-war to the wars of the Romans: the civilian population suffers the most, often marginalising that of the armies in numbers.

I googled and found a reference to a study that I vaguely remembered, from some two years ago. I did not find the original which was published, but this CNN update on it. Up to 31% of US troops in Iraq return with PTSD, and half of these see serious problems and limitations in their daily life. That is pretty much within my own estimation I mentioned earlier, 15-25% I said, actually the total the study here mentions even exceeds my estimations.

Add to these 14%/31% of the study the almost 40,000 physically injured the official counting marks (and that until today excludes PTSD as far as I know). How many troops have been rotating in and out in Iraq and Afghanistan in the past ten years? Several hundred thousand? 14%/31% of these makes a worrying high number.

I dare to bet against you, August, that much, much more vets return from their servicetime in Iraq or Afghanistan than just that one in 15 you mentioned who actually suffer issues from their time in war. It's just that they have become used to hide that as long as possible and not to talk about it as long as they can avoid it. It is against what I tried to summarize in the opening paragraph. You do not show your fears or weaknesses. You just don't. You instead smile and say "All okay." The vacuum consuming you when you sit alone in your room or the isolation you feel when being in the middle of a crowd and the adrenaline starts pumping or the memories turning your sleep into hell - is something you guys even do not tell a doctor as long as you still can uphold the illusion that you "have evertyhing under control". Loss of control is weakness.