Rift between Germany and Greece widens
 

I'm at a bit of a loss here...why did the Greeks accept the money then?

They certainly can't argue they weren't aware of the conditions attached, so I'd have thought if the Greek people were angry with anyone it should be their own politicians.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17177200

Vendor, what have you done with Jim?:haha:

€130bn for Greece, ~€12.000 for each Greek - If I were the Greek government I'd just hand it out and tell them to emigrate. :stare:

Last one out turn off the lights.

Maybe Jim just noticed obvious possibility to increase his post count. :D

...or alternatively Vendor is sitting behind Jim with 9mm aspirin dispenser. :O:

How to build a submarine from a ship? Sitting on a deck below the waterline, drilling holes into the hull.

That's the German cleverness these days.

We indeed believe the holes in the hull is the new vogue, looking so convincingly and nice that sooner or later the other nations in the world will love it so much that they follow our example and start drilling holes into their own ships as well.

Drilling? I would say we're using Blockbuster bombs right now.:nope:

I believe the Greeks are being a tad ungrateful and disrespectful.....hand the money back and pull out of the Euro by all means but don't bite the hand that's feeding you.

Why not? I mean they are dealing with Germans, not with just somebody else. With Germans you can do like that. Since WWII, those Germans will even give you some salt and pepper and wish you Bon Appetit.

Our finance minister has just recently excused to the Greeks when their president and their former foreign minister complained about the German payments being given in a too unrespectful, Greece-offending manner!!

Heck, the self-disolving of Germany in what is called over here an "integration process" is even anchored in the German constitution! It is probably the only constitution in the world calling for the self-dissolving of the nation that the constitution holds.

I'd wager Greece being the DPRK of Europe before the decade is out.

Perhaps some of you should read this before scapegoating Greece :shifty:

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...den-met-elkaar

hope the translation is not too messed up.

HunterICX

Still question is if all this justify Greek lifestyle and if other countries should pay for corruption and stupidity of Greek government.
They had run this republican taxation economy in social democratic country.
So they have big public sector some rich shipping companies and tourism.....is that enough?
I also cant understand how EU let them drawn so deep in debts.

My cousin said something to me one day when discussing Greece a few months ago.

Pardon the "godwins law"

He said something along the lines they are attempting to do to Europe using bankers, what Hitler did to them using Panzers.

I am inclined to agree. Not saying Greece and it's culture of early retirement and tax evasion are infallible. Just that Germany throughout the whole Euro currency and PIIGS troubles has been hardline and merciless.


Welcome to American style capitalism Europe, where the winners dictate policy, and the people are just "rubes" to be taken advantage of.

Hier is ze plan: German tax collectors volunteer for duty in Greece

"More than 160 German tax collectors have volunteered for possible assignments in Greece to help the struggling Mediterranean country gather tax more efficiently, the Finance Ministry in Berlin said on Saturday.

The German government says it wants to help Greece develop a modern tax administration and has started recruiting volunteers for Greek duty. More than 160 German tax officials with English language skills have signed up and about a dozen also speak Greek, a spokesman for the finance ministry said.

"Greece's problems today are even worse than the problems faced with former East Germany in 1990," said Norbert Walter-Borjans, NRW finance minister, referring to the period after German unity when west German tax officials went to the ex-Communist east of the country to help improve tax collection.

"There was resistance then among some eastern Germans against western (tax collectors) but that's nothing compared to the reservations Greeks will have against Germans," he added."

Knock, Knock.

Who is there?

Zee German tax collectors.

The German tax collectors who?

Just kidding, Vee do not knock.

Maybe they could try the Lebensraum thingy again?:hmmm: Third time the charm?:hmmm::hmmm:

Great summer holiday homes?:hmmm:

@Dan D

That is quite interesting...perhaps they have room for some from HMRC because us Brits are paying far too much in taxes (at least the humble working class are) :nope:

The greek lifestyle should not be Europes problems, (in reality we feel that crap in America) but the worry is on the stock market, not the general welfare of the people. Anytime rumblings from Greece or Europe happen the stock market takes a dump, which is bad for the elites who make all their money on the casino.

You wonder why the EU let them do it?

My educated opinion is...

It is because they wanted to create a global conglomerate that would overthrow the America/China/Russia worldwide trade dominance, spearheaded by Germany of course. Who remains one of the few staunch defenders of the failed Euro currency.

Europe (as a whole) may be small in relation to other (larger) countries, but they are vastly more idealogically fragmented. There is nothing culturally tying all the countries together, the allegiance is monetarily, which is great for the elites, but not for the "rubes" who keep the racket going.

Nonsense that is the not common Nazi BS that is flying from greece to germany becasue Germany is not enthusaistic about sinling billions and billions into a bottomless pit (but nevertheless we do). They compare the modern Federal Republic to the Third Reich and compare Merkel to Hitler and bring German polticians not folliwng their payment demands oint eh same lebel as war criminals and genocidal massmurderers.

Greece and Greeks do not wish to realise that in the very first theymuist pount finger at themnselves. We have not messed up their so-called "state". They did - since many many centuries, time and again, never any different.

The hostility againstn mGermany also is becasue Germkans are not entusiastic to repeat the american Fed's mistake to just print money and print and porint and more and more and more. The bill gets delayed at the price of multiplying the final costs. Also, Germany not only guaranbtees for the bailout fonds, but also for several times as much money - via the german share in the ECB which has started to bail out greek bonds as well, nothign else it is.

It's all madness, but the German are held repsonsibole if they do not endlessly pay for it. It is so hilarious an attempt to blackmail us that I couold only laugh aboiut it any more - and heplessly crmajng my fist when seeing that our wonderful parliament once again has waved through another tranche of several dozen of billions of german tax money that we will never see again and will need to compnesate for the loss by raising our own debts limitsd and needing to pay additional interest and devaluing our oensions and future finacial securitiy of our emplyoees and workers.

But we are Nazis if we do not do that. That is so cheap, c'mon, even if you are germanophobe you cannot believe that so easily?

I can give you a nice outlook, you very probably will see the financial full collapse of Germany sooner or later. In some years, maybe 10 to 20 at max, but probably earlier, europpe paymaster No. 1 will have run out of heartblood, and collapse. And then the EU is done any many European states as well. Honstely said, I am looking forward. The EU and the euro are the biggest catastrophes for europe since WWII. And where the Nazis failed to destroy all valuable culture they came in contact with, the EU increasingly succeeds. what both have in common, the Third Reich and the EU, is a strong dislike for rich diversity in regional culture and differences between the many many different peoples and tribes living in europe.

Because there is no Europe in singular - the word always must imply the plural. The idea of a singular One-Europe - is a self-destructive fallacy. Cooperation and coordination of economies in trading with non-european regions - yes, hell, that was what the initial idea of the ECC was about. Everything else - death to the EU, I say. It sticks its nose into things now that must not be its business at all. Language. Education. Local food habits. Public opinion forming.

It rmeinds me very very strongly of the sysytem they have had in the GDR and in the USSR. Merkel was chief-secretary for propaganda in the GDR's state youth organisation. Adn she really makes her origin recongisable in germany now. The official polkit slang has striking paralleols to the temrinology they used in the GDR media reproting about the heroic ruling of the party in the worker's paradise of real existing socialism.

the bailout for greece now that Greece wanted - does not help the Greek people, btw. It helps European banks, foreign investment fonds, and foreign hedgefonds. Like the money flood by the ECB does not liquidise the market to easy credits, but gets stockpiled by these same players. Paying for the ECB frenzy must the tax payer, one quarter of it by the Germans alone. And in the bundestag it was openly amditted today in the general debate that the money for Greece will not make a difference, and that more bailouts will most likely follow - also to no effect. the inteiror minister has rejected support for Merkel, btw, and the chancellor got no own coalition majority in parliament and was helped out by Socialists and Green. Interestingly, the communists also voted against the bailout.

If somebody plans to burn down that damn treacherous Reichstag, please accept me handing you the matches.

Then why do the Germans try so hard to hold onto this?

It is because they have alot of money invested in this, and being the dominant player, they can dictate economic policy to other weaker countries.

Not excusing the PIIGS, but you guys let them cook the books to get in, in the first place. The euro experiment is an exercise in greed.

Yes America and it's fed sucks the life out the country, but has little to do with the Euro sucking the life out of Europe.

I do not recant my previous point. It was not intended to call Germans Nazis. It was intended to show how Merkel feels it is her duty to muscle other soveriegn nations, because she holds all the money.

It's Germany's eternally bad consicnce due to WWII. Calling Germany a strong power, or demanding it to lead and give orientation in Europe, makes germans feel guilty. Our foreign jester Westerwelle just said it tweo weeks ago or so: "Us Germans do not wish to ever lead europe." Old chncellor Schmidt has warned the Germans to be seen as leading in the crisis and that Germany shall not attempt to lead europe. Germany marks plenty of tough iron-ladied words at home - but on the european parkett she gives in to foreign demand again and again and again, or sooner or later allows to get "pressed" for acceptance over something. Its just that she excels in hiding it at home. that way, what immediately appears t be a german success in european diplomacy, in the following days and weeks got water4ed down, hollowed out, played down, with merkel accepting the final outcome that had nothing to do with what was agreed on. She does so by refering endlessly to "lack of alternatives" and calling it "consensus" and european unity - as if there would something exist as euro0pean unity! :haha: Germans are obsessed by r5eaching always a consensus and never appearing to be as somebody accepting conflict. Necessarily this means that German politics also give the idea that if pressed hard enough Germany will not stand by anything others do not like.

If there is one absolutely dominant characteristic in German politics since merkel came to power, than this: "total arbitrariness" (völlige Beliebigkeit). The conservative party is not standing for anything anymore, especially not for conservatism. It just exists from one day to the next, has no orientation, only lives for the purpose of opportunistically securing merkel's power.

I indeed think that you can talk of a new political school here, Merkelianism. I mean that serious. Total, opportunistic arbitrariness while lacking any content that could not be called by its precise opposite right the next day.

She's a disaster. Problem is with the socialists Germany would become even more enthusiastic to sink tax money in foreign bottomless holes. Scoialist international solidarity and denying of individual responsibility, and all that, you know.