Libyans desecrate WWII allied war graves
 

:nope:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...n-burning.html

Hardly surprising. This IS the Middle East after all.

Actually I think it in North Africa. :hmmm:

Geographically yes, mentality, all the same. If in doubt, blame Western Europe and set fire to something that belongs to them.
That being said, I dare say that Western Europe has done something similar to that to them before, burning down Mosques and that, probably not recently though, but that's how it goes. No nation is a saint.

Meanwhile they burn american flags, turn to us when they want to rebel, and then go back to the same thing they were always doing. not to mention these soldiers died to Wrench the axis from North Africa.

Its all such idiotic tribalism. It makes me sick to my stomach to see U.S soldiers urinating on dead soldiers and it sickens me to see these hypocrites desecrate war graves. Its all so ridiculous...

i think this whole thing is just another indicator of the fundamental problems with the Islamic world and its relations with the non-islamic -that is, as some Britisher of the colonial era once said (and i forget who it was) the islamic world is like an enormous drum. You tap one small part of it and you hear the sound all over it.

They like to say that they are not monolithic, and emphasise the diversity within them, when it suits them to do so. No doubt it is true too in many aspects - and for sure Muslim Malaysia had little in common with Muslim Pakistan (although there are pressures for standardisation in recent years), it is also the case that there are many similarities, and especially this tribal instinct to unite in common outrage when their inflated sense of grievance is challenged.

The reaction to this display of unity of theirs is that we see them as united and associate their readiness to acts of violence that we see in kabul and libya with muslim communities in europe, russia and america. As you say it reinforces "idiotic tribalism"

Yes they asked for help when they wanted to rebel - why wouldn't they? Asking costs nothing. We helped them in Libya for our reasons, not for theirs. Although I acknowledge a little gratitiude wouldn't go amiss. Although you should also keep in perspective - how many people does it take to desecrate a cemetary? It's not like it was official policy of whatever it is that passes for government in post-gadaffi libya.

But also, i wouldn't confuse the status of allied war graves in libya. I think they do not have the same meaning in Libya as they do in France for example, whereby they are the cost allied forces paid to liberate the oppressed from tyranny.

I argue that in North Africa, they were not about this. They were one set of colonial rulers fighting a turf war with another set of colonial masters. Mostly the whole thing represents a reminder of the wretched condition to which the muslim world had fallen (and still is in) compared to their medieval glory days when the muslim world was roughly equal to or better than the other main civilisations of the day. In those days muslim lands were not merely the battlegrounds were great christian nations did battle with one another (and just a minor part of the battle at that).

I would be surprised if they felt that gratitude to the allied dead was a feeling that we expected of them.

I read these comments on the link with both an air of interest and sadness.

Good point well made.

@joegrundman. one little point, you note the colonial nature as a difference between graves in France and in Africa, however it should also be considered that the silly tribalsim has led to many instances of French.....(can't call them Frenchmen in this instance for obvious reasons as scum would be a better suffix)...desecrating allied graves in France because they have a silly hatred of Britain or America.

Pre-medieval tribalism, Islam, ultra-orthodox patriarchalism - that is like holding an open vial of Ebola, Plague and Anthrax in your hand and having forgotten where one has put the cap.

Its a bloody book for crying out loud!

Anyone would think the US Army shot a few Libyans for being in the way.

Books can be re-printed you know, hang on has anyone told them that? Makes you wonder.


These people...Are what's the point you know.

Apparently it means much more to them than that. I agree with you, though: "Just a damn book... get over it." :yep:

Yes, and some people go mad over a flag, same sillyness isn't it.

Obama excused to them - not to Allah, why is that? - on the same day when Amerian officers got shot dead in the Kabul HQ.

That is like sending a message of weakness, a message encouraging them.

Nobody should have excused over it at all. And if their heads pop open over it in anger - must not be our concern, but would have been of great benefit for the rest of mankind.


I read that some of the Qurans that got disposed, where used by prisoners to write conspratory message into them to communicate with other prisoners. I wonder why this profanity is of no concern for those "demostrators".

Islam is a political ideology first, a religious one only second. Politics is the intention, totalitarian control and supremacistic dominance - religion only serves as a deception. Self-victimization and claiming a status of eternal, always existing offence and being snapped over that, is a rethoric weapon to make the other feel bad, to make him excuse, to make him make another small step backwards while one makes one step ahead oneself.

On Afghanistan, since 2005 at the very latest I am saying that the war there already is FUBAR and is lost and cannot be won anymore. Since then I never had s single reason, not even the smallest one, to ever put that assessement into doubt.

QFT. Every culture has a loose hinge somewhere. :roll:

On the other side, you can say that they are just damned stones.....get over it; the dead don't care. The problem is dogma. Many Muslims hold their religion close to the chest. Many in the West hold war and the military in a quasi-religious manner as well. If we all let our beliefs go, then there would be nothing to fight over. Nobody is, however, ever going to do that. Certainly we won't; it would be called unreasonable. And so to expect the other to do it is equally unreasonable.

When Tevye overheard the cries for 'an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth', he quipped that soon the whole world would be blind and toothless. He is right.

I'm not clear on why the President is strengthening his ties to the ME. At a guess I'd say that whatever the reason, his actions must have reaped some benefit to our country.

I'd almost bet dollars to pesos that none of the protesters are aware of the coded messages. It's easy for people to get stirred up over something that seems so benign when they don't have all the facts. And who in a crowd of angry people would dare ask the logical question of "Why are we doing this?". Nobody would hear them anyway. :hmmm:


The war in Afghanistan:

I think it was FUBAR'd after the Taliban was driven out of the country. I've been reading up on the Korean War lately, and what I have learned so far is that the ROK divisions had plenty of reason to fight. They learned everything they could from KMAG, and used every resource made available to them by the US. I think that if the Afghan people had good enough reason to fight insurgency they would stand up and learn everything they can from our advisors. From what I've read it seems as if this is another war where the American soldier is expected to die for the indigenous people -- to do all the lifting so to speak. "Yes, we want our country to be safe, but we don't want to do it ourselves." Once our troops are withdrawn the country will slip back into chaos. Waste much effort? Oh yeah, it's a waste alright. :shifty:

I couldn't agree more. 158 of my countrymen have died in this country and for what? Don't say it's for democracy cause that's just political crap fed to the gullible. Picking a side to support in this medevial society is like asking who you would like to run your neighbourhood; the Mafia or the Hell's angels. Their interests and goals are not what we want.

"Once our troops are withdrawn the country will slip back into chaos."

Sad, but for certain it will happen.

@krash
Money resources and ease of transport, plus arms sales and regional influence...same reasons every modern president has done so in the region. Same reasons as european leaders do it and the same reason why china does it.

:doh:Someones hatred is clouding their very slim grip on reality.
When their heads pop open in anger it is other people who get their heads cut off.
If Skys eugenic dream of selective breeding can one day make it so brainless twats suffer a massive aneurism when they get angry it might be a good idea to go round annoying them for the fun of it and reaping its benefits, but in this reality the result is that they go round killing other people so it is a bloody stupid thing to do and is of no benefit at all.


@crank
What do you mean "back into chaos"?
The country has remained in chaos despite the troops presence.
One thing this latest act of stupidity by troops has done is bringing the chaos to the forefront in areas of the country where it was only simmering under the surface.

I would be surprised if anything really crossed their minds besides simple "Lets destroy some infidel graves"
It was probably something similar to Monty Python witch burning scene.

@Tribesman
I was quoting krashkart, but you're right on that. Bringing a war machine to any country can only cause or add to chaos. Trying to help these people with military intervention is pissin' into the wind. Every time you accidentally kill a civilian you make hundreds of new enemies, anyone of which has the potential to be another Bin Laden.
Original thought, we shouldn't be there. It's a hopeless cause.