Can't seem to get upgraded to Gato, TMO2.5
 

Playing TMO 2.5 with RSRDC. I've been driving a Tambor since early '43. I'm now in Dec '44 and can't get upgraded to Gato. I've been thru Pearl, Midway, Majuro and now Saipan home bases but am still stuck with a Tambor. I've amassed over 100K tons and have more medals than I can give out. I feel like it's groundhog day. Anyone else have this?

I suggest that this problem should be marked as "fixed" with Annker,s fix as linked in post#30 to this thread. I've DL'd it and used it and was able to move from a Gar, to Tambor, to finally a Baleo by late 1942.

I had tried the "terrible T' campaign twice, both times they messed up in early 1944....So I reinstalled RSRDC to do a normal career, started with a Sargo, was upgraded to a Gar, and then a Tambor in early 1943.

I had the Tambor until they mothballed me and the boat in May of 1945. I was getting a Navy Cross with every patrol and had over 300,000 tons sunk, yet never upgraded to a Gato or Balao.

I think there may be a Tambor problem with TMO 2.5 :damn:

Thanks for sharing. It's been interesting career though! Decided to wait around in Sibuyun Sea to see the big battle on Oct 24, 1944. RSRDC is something, so much action my PC couldn't handle it and crashed.
Think I'll start a new career.

I noticed something funny as well............

I started a new construction '42 campaign. (GATO)

Did the 3 sea trials and finished my first war patrol....

Was offered an upgrade....... Tambor class.

Something is definitely broke.

RSRDC over TMO 2.5
 

Y'all did notice Ducimus kindly noted it's not guaranteed to work with any other mod, right? Have you tried TMO alone and see if that works?

So what might have changed with TMO 2.5? I've played TMO with RSRD for over a year and never saw this. Yes, I play TMO 2.5 alone and haven't seen this (yet!).

I played TMO2.5 stand alone, with the 'Terrible T' campaign...they both messed up in early 1944....I was sent back in time to 1942...I had posted about it close to a month ago.

I'm guessing if it is a TMO problem, it has to do with making Tambor class to upgrade level 5, which is higher than all other classes. I've looked around in the files, and I don't know why that would make a problem if you're already in a Tambor, although upgrading to one would lock you in forever.

I make my own mod over TMO using Duci's files as a base, so I haven't actually got to using TMO 2.5 much yet...

You may want to try putting Tambor back to UpgradeClass=3 in \Data\Submarine\NSS_Tambor\NSS_Tambor.upc, putting it on the same level with Gar and Gato, and see if that works better for you. If I run across the same issue, I'd try that first.

Although, that ruins the whole Terrible T campaign. The strange thing I see in the campaign is Tambors are excluded from all flotillas, but in the Tambor campaign, PH goes away and comes back, which is unlike the others.

*sigh*

I know what the problem is. SH4 hates me.

Yes, as noted, the Tambor is set at upgradeclass 5. This was intentional, because the way i had set up the upgrade classes, the order of progression should be something like:
S class -> Porpoise -> Salmon/Sargo -> Gar -> Gato -> Balao/Tench

With the tambor completely out of the loop into the upper end. In theory, you couldne't get offered a tambor unless you were in a tench. I intentionally removed the Tambor classes from ALL other flotillas to be sure they couldn't be offered anywhere else by mistake (apparently the game will give you a boat even if it isn't assigned to your flotilla), and also there was a presumption on my part that the game will offer upgrades in numerical order. Logical no? 1 before 2, 2 before 3, 3 before 4.

Since the game defies logic, the only way to really fix this is to revert the associated files back to the previous version of TMO, and scrap the terrible T campaign.

I also want to mention that i have NEVER EVER liked what the devs did with how submarines or conning tower refits are offered. It really sucks, because whatever routine they have in the code, defies all logic or sanity, so it is extremely hard to mod and account for. I have often thought of trying to change it back to how it worked in SH3, but i don't think its possible, its code level.

And BTW, i did test this all out before i published TMO 2.5. I set up a test mission outside of pearl with the main objective to reach the desginated area, rewarding enough renown to be a considered a successful patrol. I then took this setup and ran several boats out of pearl and it worked as i wanted, but apparently it was a fluke. A classic case of "it worked on my computer".


edit:
That was intentional. I had set it to where if you played the whole thing, your base would be changed in the south west pacific. To change the pace, new missions etc, instead of running just the PH missions all the time. Eventually changing you back to PH. As i recall, i set this to very loosely follow the Tautog's patrols in terms of base assignments.

While your idea of the new boats being offered in order, 1....2.....3....4 makes sense. They might just as well be offered in order of increasing value, i.e. 1.....1+x.....1+x+y..... That is, every new command would be an improvement over the previous one. Maybe a marginal improvement, maybe a large improvement. It is not only a matter of rewarding a CO for a good patrol, but perhaps more importantly, of mating the best CO's with the best available boats. Also, there would likely be quite a bit of chance involved (I guess), as to what happens to become available at that particular time.

That's pretty much what I was thinking, based on what you said in your manual about refits/upgrades/promotions all being thrown together in the game engine. It just doesn't like taking Tambor out of the system.

By this time i think it's obvious that if there's an upgrade available, the game tosses the upper end at you regardless of the value of upgrade class, or even if its in the same flotilla or not. The game just doesn't care. From what i gather from this thread, regardless of everything else, It always shoots for the bigger number. That said, i still don't understand why it worked on my computer. When i get around to fixing this, i'm going to stop trying to be elegant, and pick a simple straightforward solution.

Duci,

You should fire those SHIV developers for making such a crappy mod that screws up TMO!!!!

lmao!

:D

I'm just sorry this has manifested itself into a problem. I've poured a lot of effort into this game and mod. The kick in the crotch is I haven't honestly tried to play a real career game in a couple of years. Test games a plenty, but to sit down and enjoy it? It's just not in my capacity. I know too much of the inner workings to suspend disbeleif, all i see is variable and objects; and because of that, i have zero desire to play.


Anyway in the interm, to fix this problem, you'll have to look at the submarine UPC files of the last version of TMO, in specific the upgradeclass variable. It should be near the top section of the file. Edit this to the last version of TMO, and then take the careerstart.upc file, and the flotilla.upc file as well. They're located i belelive, data/upcdata/upccampaign or something like that. Should be a straight drag and drop. This will pretty much be what the patch will look like, if you want to go ahead and fix the problem yourself. I will patch it, though i cannot say when. I have very little desire to look at the game, other then to save face from my collossoal screw up, and i don't have any of the previous files backed up on my new computer. So if i can't grab the old files, ill have to fix things the hard way.

The above is going by memory mind you, i'm slightly buzzed right now from captain morgan rum. Anyway, the only way to salvage the concept behind the terrible T campaign, is basically to disable and remove every freaking sub from play EXCEPT the one boat you want to play the entire war. Kinda sucks, but there it is.

I've been thinking about what you said here the last couple days.

I need two bits of information from those experiencing this problem.

1.) How much renown are you averaging per patrol? What was the most renown you earned in any single patrol?

2.) After being offered a Tambor, are you in the same flotilla, or are you being transported into the Terrible T flotilla? ( You can check but looking at the transfer menu (phone in office), it should list the description of your current flotilla at the top of that screen. )


I'm developing a two part theory that
A.) renown earned influences upgrade class. In my testing, I only tested what was considered a good patrol. I didn't test excellent patrol ratings. Maybe why it worked on my computer?

b.) I have a sneaky suspicion your in the same flotilla you were to begin with. As i recall, the Missions for the tambor still reside in every flotilla the boat was assigned to. All i did, as a short cut (because i didn't feel like rewriting the ENTIRE FILE), was date the tambor availablity dates to be post war. It could be the game is not paying attention to when the boat is available in terms of date, and fixates only if missions are available for it.

I have always been in Fremantle when I moved up from a Gar to a Tambor, but always career start at Cavite. I'm playing 2.2 now and I am in Surabaya so I'm not sure what the Fremantle flotilla is called. When playing the 'Terrible T' it's usually transferring in or out of Fremantle in late 43/early 44 where myself and at least one other person I know of was time warped back to July 42.

As for renown, mine always fluctuates too much to have an average, so I can not help you there.

On a side note, I was excited when 2.5 came out with the 'T' campaign, sorry it didn't work out as you had planned. The rest of the changes are great, the environments and the night surface attacks had really made the game more enjoyable. It's a shame you put so much work into a game that you no longer enjoy playing, but I think I can speak not just for myself but for a lot of people when I say your work is greatly appreciated. TMO is an excellent mod.

I do hope some kind of patch type fix will become available as some people, especially myself, are not very good at file changing/swapping. :)

I wish I could answer your question as accurately as you would probably deem necessary, but a lot of variables came into play in my experience which might have influenced the actual number, like a "Command Presence" specialist who influenced my renown.:hmmm:

Still, I can say that my renown (I thought) was a little on the high side. There were a lot of Jap subs that kept appearing during my patrols too. I think I came across six or seven over three patrols (3 on one patrol alone). They were split between contacts in the South Chian Sea and the Flores Sea. I also came across large numbers of tankers (Large and Medium) in the Makassar Strait. So many in fact, that I never made it to my patrol objectives (the shortest routes being through the Makassar) without expending all of my ordinance and RTBing. I was averaging about 55 to 60k tonnage per patrol, about half of which were large tankers.
There was almost no air patrols (even near air bases), and even running RSRDC in tandem with TMO, it was sparse enough for me to take notice.

I've since started a new career using the workaround that you previously mentioned (so far no problems), so I cannot check for sure what flotilla I was assigned to. I will say that I was stuck at Fremantle right after Cavite and, even after a Jan. 1, 44 transfer to Midway, I was still being assigned to patrol areas that I had been patrolling when I was based at Perth-Fremantle. There was one point where I was advised to shift my base of operations to Milne Bay (via radio message) but, my Home Port (tilted anchor) never changed over from Fremantle.

I'm hoping that this will help some in your endeavor to narrow things down.;)

I'm attempting your fix..........In order to replicate a completely controlled environment I will partake of much Bulleit Bourbon in the process. Hopefully that'll smooth out any abberations. Buuuurrrrpppp!

I've reset the upgradeclass variable for the Tambor from 5 back to 1 as per TMO 2.2.

I've copy and pasted the flotillas upc from 2.2 into my 2.5

and I'm taking the careerstart upc from 2.0 and pasting it into 2.5... (not present in the 2.2 upgrade.

I'll let you know how it goes ....my not so scientific criteria will be if I get upgraded to a Gato when I hit Brisbane....

I'll run a campaign from S boats in Manila/Surubaya/Freemantle/Brisbane transfer/Upgrade to a Salmon or Sargo usually happens here around patrol 4 or 5......Upgrade to Gato usually kicks over around patrol 10.....

I posted some information about my experiences with this bug. Here is the relevant section:
In addition there was a flotilla change.

Incidentally, I'm in the midst of another career, starting in a Gato out of Pearl in June 1942. At the conclusion of 3rd Patrol (24 Dec), I was offered a new sub. Turned out to be a Balao. So, it doesn't always seem to happen.

As for renown, it's been a long time since I got other than an excellent for a patrol, so I don't think it is renown related, particularly since I didn't get a Tambor in this most recent career.

Historically the new GATO class boats first sailed out of Pearl/Midway and didn't patrol from Fremantle and other ports Asiatic until Dec 42/Jan 43.

I didn't look at any stock or modded SH4 flotilla's to see, but it seems like Ducimus (for example) tried to strike a balance leaning toward historical accuracy - with some leeway.

Pearl would be where I'd expect to get moved into a GATO class first.

Happy Hunting!

Art