CAPT Holly Graf gets ‘honorable’ retirement
 

Yep. :yep: You did read correctly. Captain Holly Graf, also nicknamed as "Horrible Holly" and "female Captain Bligh", gets 'honorable' retirement against recommendation of her board of inquiry. Here are few links on subject:

http://www.susankatzkeating.com/2012...-upgrades.html

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/0...rement-010612/

http://militarycorruption.com/hollygraf18.htm

http://www.stripes.com/navy-to-let-o...ement-1.165440

Holly who? :hmmm: Here is thread by Kaye T. Bai on SUBSIM on subject: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//sho...d.php?t=162805

EDIT: When digging for more information on Captain Holly Graf, I found interesting blog which I address in this post (Page 3 #41). I strongly recommend reading it as it gives interesting counter point to majority of other sources.

The USN seems to handle it's trouble a lot like PSU. :hmmm:

I guess a lot like any large organization that doesn't want to be defined by it's renegades.

Wow, that "military corruption.com" site is crazy.

Interesting how the story played out over the years though.

And yet, by handling them as they have both have created that which they feared. I would always have hoped that, should I ever be in their shoes, I would do the right thing right away. Having never been in the place to make that choice, I cannot say that I would.

BTW what you think about this picture?http://www.militarycorruption.com/Images/near-miss.jpg
Picture is from MilitaryCorruption.com article found here. Couple of quotes.
I would like to hear opinions of those who have served on navy (not banning others) of soundness of this kind of "drag-racing"?

I feel that the quality of people coming out of this modern society is rotten to begin with, and that people will take their immoral lusts into the military with them. After all, our military is staffed by the once civilians of this nation. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. This is how our total society is being utterly disintegrated from the inside out by those in control of the 4 hidden dynasties; Wealth, Religion, Politics, and Education. Through these 4 major dynasties our country is being broken down and re-molded into the country that those truly in power want us to be, whereby we're easily controlled and better positioned for the execution of their selfish plans.
Another example of the scourge of feminazism overtaking this land. Those with the cooch think they can do whatever they want and get away with it.

It is funny to me how an officer can do things worthy of a dishonorable discharge most times they get let off with out a hitch.There are tons of examples of officers having been court marshaled and found guilty yet someone stepping in to let them off the hook.Now for an enlisted person your screwed hard they love to make examples of enlisted men and women this was something that really disgusted me about the military while I was in.

I knew people in my old units that made "mistakes in judgment" things that should not have gotten them kicked out yet the JAG threw the book at them in many cases even when commanding officers did not wish for the person to punished in such a manner.It makes no sense to me you(as enlisted) will get your career ruined for minor things in the modern military that would have only had a short term negative effect in the old day and would have been removed from your records after good behavior.I know a retired Air Force E-9 served for 28 years from 1961-1981 this guy was one of the youngest E-9s in the Air Force in his day and was a Training Instructor at Lackland form 1964-1967 even though he had received an article 15 for getting drunk and wrecking all of the public areas of his dorm at Nellis AFB when he was an A2C.Today you would have a very good chance of getting kicked out for such a thing yet 40 years ago it had little bearing.In my day I knew an E-4 whose terrible infraction was getting drunk and getting into a fight with some Army private in which very minor injures where caused by both parties.The Air Force saw fit to give this E-4 a less than honorable discharge even though his commanding officer felt that an article 15 with loss of all rank was fair punishment and wanted the airman to stay in the Air Force.

Myself I had an LOR in tech school for being late for formation because I had to complete an assigned detail which failure to have completed would also have resulted in an LOR :hmmm: Which the NCO gladly reminded myself and my roommate who also received an LOR. This stuck with me until my second base where my commanding officer tossed it in the trash.

Flip the coin and officers can get away with damn near anything.

@Stealhead

I only understood 50% of your post. Not everyone here is trained in US military acronyms.;)

LOR Letter of Reprimand letter listing an infraction you have committed not worthy of punishment.They can be removed by commanding officers.

Article 15 is a form of non judicial punishment given by commanders for infractions not considered as requiring courts marshal.In most cases the offender
looses rank and may also get extra or be restricted to base rank is earned back.

JAG Judge Advocate General basically this is the judicial branch that represents the military DA of the military military judges are also part of JAG.District Attorney not sure what this equates to in Germany.

E-4 fourth enlisted rank in the US military

E-9 highest enlisted rank

NCO non commissioned officer an enlisted man.

Enlisted a person that serves as an enlisted man

Officer a person that is a commissioned officer by Congress and the President of the United States.

Dishonorable discharge very bad conduct equal to a criminal conviction most that receive this committed a a crime in the military and served military prison time.


Less than honorable discharge poor conduct but you can appeal them after 6 months and most will get it changed to honorable.

A2C Airman Second Class old Air Force rank an E-2 now just called Airman.

Kraznyi, you ain't doing yourself any favours linking to those loonies.
The actual story speaks for itself, once you introduce those crazy rants from that site you actually start to make the officer look better.

I was in the Army and I witnessed numerous occasions where officers would acquit themselves of charges worthy of court martial, and would turn around and promote themselves and give themselves medals. Usually some poor enlisted guy would take the fall and the punishment. There was an E7 that lost his rifle on a patrol in Iraq, got back to base, switched up the serial numbers with some private, and got the private in trouble for losing the weapon. My lieutenant lost his gas mask, and did the same thing to a specialist in my squad. After the tour they were all assigned bronze stars. For what? They rarely left the wire or took responsibility for their actions. People are selfish and self serving. The greatest example of this lies with the talking suits in washington.

Do you mean that I'm looking loony too?
I agree that articles' tone is quite harsh and many of their sources are anonymous which makes them not reliable as sole source. Thats reason why I have opted to quote other sources as well.

In case of that article I linked last (one containing picture of ships moving close of each other) I wanted to hear navy people/mariner opinion of that picture. I quoted their text to make it clear what picture is supposed to represent.Could you explain how? Other sources still give quite similar picture of captain Graf.

It is in their explaination
Is it the old boys network, poofs in the pentagon, preference for officers over enlisted, dykes at sea, modern political correctness gone mad, simple nepotism, typical old school navy.....that site its claims its all of them ...so how does that work? Its like saying its a capitalist communist martian from venus who is a sunni jewish bhuddist atheist

You have evidence of these crimes and you didn't report it to the JAG? Why?

Agreed. Thats their explanation. I don't know their sources so I'm not qualified to comment whether its correct or not. May I ask what is your explanation?I'm absolutely convinced that their editors would like to discuss with you about this intepretation...


This "Graf Case" is strange one and I don't have explanation for it. There are several questions which I need reliable answers before I can even dream of explaining this:
- Why it took so long to anyone to take action?
- At my understanding in U.S. military officer/enlistee retires on that rank where he/she last performed satisfactorily. If that is case then why Ms. Graf retires at rank of captain (O-6)?
- Why board of inquiry recommendation of 'general discharge' was dismissed?
- Why whole process took so long?

It couldn't be correct as it is plainly self contradictory, as for their sources two you used appear very intertwined and both have the same third source which not only goes through the same self contradictory explanations but also takes her own case and as well as doing the selfcontradictory arguements manages to argue that exactly the opposite is the case....ie the navy is a miscogenistic racist unpolitcally correct dinosaur from the dark ages.

she screwed up and was dealt with in the normal manner.





I would say its probably just the way its done and the way its always been done.
Process, it makes a long drawn out affair.
She was removed from her position, not demoted.
Now thats a question.

Me and numerous other members within the company and platoon gathered any and all evidence and reported it to JAG ASAP once we reached our demob base at Ft. McCoy, WI. They took the information and claimed to have conducted an investigation, but as soon as we got back to MN (we were MN Army National Guard troops that had been Federally activated for service in Iraq) the company was disbanded and any records regarding the deployment were scrapped except for records on medals and awards earned while in combat.

The commander got promoted to a new unit, and the NCO's in question had no paper trail to follow them back to their respective units within the state once we were back to inactive duty. Beyond that I don't know what became of those individuals. I think it was just swept under the rug.

I found out later that our commander and 1SG were so bad that our deployment had to be cut short even though the 2007 surge was going on at the time. While other units were being extended, we were getting a one way ticket home. We were the hot potato company, nobody wanted us around due to our poor leadership.

That's pretty much the long and short of it. I served as an E4(SPC) Infantryman with B. Co. 1-194, 34th ID (Red Bulls) MNARNG from 2004-2008. I was supposed to be in until 2010, but I took an administrative leave due to complications with my fiance and personal life at the time, and the legal issues surrounding the deployment. The crappy part was they offered the admin discharge, but then used that to void my educational benefits later when I applied for school in 2010.

I've been so disgruntled with the government and Army both for their dastard acts that I've even hated going to the VA for my regular physicals. It just seems as if they've only got one thing they focus on, and that's lining their own pockets and protecting their reputation.

It still pays to come from the Academy I guess.

Can I get a ring knock from everyone?

Really? From 20 March 2008 to 13 January 2010 she was the commanding officer of the USS Cowpens and before that, from 20 April 2002 to 6 February 2004 she was the commanding officer of USS Winston S. Churchill. Those incidents for which she was finally relieved of command range from 2002 to 2010 and during that time she was also promoted from commander (O-5) to captain (O-6). Grounding a ship, choking a visiting foreign naval officer, insulting your subordinates, using them as "practice targets"... Are you really seriously telling to me that that this is "business as usual"? If so then evidence please.

If you mean process after relieving her from command then I agree that its possible (check case below). Otherwise, no.

Demotion and determination of retirement rank are not same thing. Retirement rank is (as said before) determined by what was the last rank where person performed satisfactorily. Here is example: Air Force Colonel (O-6) Michael D. Murphy, a lawyer, was forced to retire after it was revealed that when he joined military in 1980's he didn't tell that his law license in Texas was suspended and propably going to be revoked. When he retired he retired in rank where he last performed satisfactorily. In his case that meant day when his license was revoked by Texas authorities. Guess what was his retirement rank (and rank by which he gets pension)? First Lieutenant (O-2). Full story is available here.

I will return to this in morning when I'm awake again. Good night (or day).