Map contact turned off
 

I am trying full realism with map contact disabled. I have forsaken the Easy Aob mod for CapnScurvy's OTC, although I believe the two mods have recently been made compatible by a fix to the Easy Aob mod. I have enabled American radar from the beginning of the war, an option offered when you download the OTC mod.

The game is really tough. It is hard to find targets, and when you do, you have to proceed via real time. If the contact is via a radar sighting, sometimes radar picks up an airplane. Then you have to evade, which takes more time. If a ship, you have to plot course, then set up and hope you are not spotted. If you are spotted, the target will begin to zig zag. That makes obtaining a good firing solution difficult.

I wonder how many captains play without map contacts enabled? Are those captains racking up quantity in terms of tonnage? That appears to take a LONG TIME. Are there any good shortcuts to the game with map contact disabled other than the Easy Aob, Nigeis 3D TDC (not a shortcut in my opinion), gutted's solution solver program, and aaronblood Mobo (tough to use with map contacts disabled)? If you have some input, I am interested on your methodology.

Incidentally, I started this sim with no background, using auto targeting. I have graduated to manual targeting and tried most mods and supermods. The only one I gave up on is celestial navigation, which got the better of me. I have mastered all the U.S. supermods and OM/OMEGU/Kiub. This is the final step, I hope.

Something I have been thinking about attempting soon also.

You say you have to proceed in real time when you find targets- how so?

When your crew reports a contact, you have to get a bearing and range fix. That involves submerging if you do not get a sonar fix on the surface. You have to submerge to approximately 40 feet. Once you get the target's bearng and range, it must be plotted on the Nav Map. Next, you need to get a second and third sonar fix to plot bearing and range, which is recommend when plotting the target's projected course. Performing these tasks can only be done real time, unless you superhuman. If you use the 3D TDC Radar Range mod, the steps are slightly different, but the process is essentially similar. As far as speed, I calculate it when the target is spotted, by meansuring the time it takes the target to cross crosses 0 degrees on the scope, so this is accomplished in real time. Now, it it is time to calculate range and Aob using OTC, also done in real time. OTC is quite accurate, plus working the slide rule mechanism is fun. CapnScurvy outdid himself with this mod, and it is in the same class as the 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit (I spotted a copy during the movie Run Silent, Run Deep) mod, but the later mod has the advantage of being usable in when weather condition or darknet render visibilithy poor to nonexistant. Finally, you manuever for intercept and attack, hopefully remaining undetected.

Convinced? Now it is time to get back to the Caine Mutiny, which is on TCM.

It's slow playing for sure, cut the cams and contacts off and it can be tedious. I played like that for a long time, now I mostly play cams off with contacts on, maybe every other patrol cut both off.

I use the radar mod with the 3 minute rule, not perfect, but I can pretty much get close, do my tracking and try to get way ahead. The pain is if you catch a zig leg in which the group changes course, with RSRD this can be about 30-50nms, so the radar mod is a must.

Once I can get a visual, it becomes easier and get my speeds with the scope.

With cams and contacts off, evasion can take hours, you bout have to play real time so you can hear, but it's fun being trapped in the sub.

I would love a mod that didn't show contact icons, but still show sonar lines.

TCM? You mean the TCM Channel? Some good stuff there, just the other day I was watching 'sledge hammer'. Classic.

I'mGD is right, it is hard to track targets in anything but TC=1x. There is just too much procedure, regardless of the method you may be using. Of course, I usually speed to 8x, 16x or something like that in-between gatherings.

I must confess I use 'no map contacts' only sporadicly, when I'm feeling quite the hardcore mother*****r. :rock:

The way i see it, it sure is top-notch challenging to play in 100% realism, but whereas other realism settings are just plain cheating (like no dud torpedoes etc.), the other two (external views and map contacts) simply improve a little bit your enjoyment of the game experience.

Specially in some mods where map contacts only input info that you collect yourself when it appears on sensors. Basically it is a manual-labour saving measure.

I actually always thought that 'external views' is more of a realism-tweaker than 'no contacts', because you feel tempted to use it to better assess threats. I think that it is only fair to use it in after-action situatinos, just to get a feel of the hell you've just raised. Or in mid-cruise. Other than that, its plain cheating.

I like playing with map contacts off. It's much more fun for me, dealing with the challenge of taking data off the instruments, watching a group of "X" marks crawl across the map. Trying to fit a course line to a small group of marks, getting speed from it. Trying to figure out where to intercept. Does the observation fit with my projection? Does the TDC match with the observation? Taking a reading that puts him off the projected course, and taking a reading a few minutes later that confirms he zigged, starting the process over again. I like that challenge.

But it's too damn much work. I hate having to take a reading, and then switch to the map and draw it out, plot the marking. It slows down the pace of the game. I find myself pausing the game to plot the target's location, and leaving the game paused while I go check a few websites, or watch "just a little bit more" of whatever movie I've got running.

So turn on map contacts. I still have to determine and enter the data into the game myself. But I just go to the map, mark the position, wait 3 minutes, mark another position. I've got him dead on with range, speed, and course with no errors. There's no challenge, it's simply a matter of moving in front of him, waiting until he's at just the right spot, and firing torpedoes.


I love this game and hate it at the same time. Map contacts off is a chore. Map contacts on is a bore. There should be some middle ground, where I take the readings, and send it to the plotting party. When I look at the map, I should see marks where I sent the bearing and range, so I can play connect the dots. If I muck up the range or the bearing, there should be a mark in the wrong place. Maybe the plotter lacks experience, or misheard me, or hasn't had enough sleep; toss in a bit of an error factor for him, too. I'd love to have the TDC target marker on the Nav map, or be able to draw on the attack map. Either of those options would open up a huge possibility to avoid what is, for me, the most annoying part of the game.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=2789

Think that mod is for air contacts only, actually show planes when contacts are off. I prefer one that gets rid of ship icons, but you still have sonar lines. Mainly, evasion can take forever dived since sonar has no way of really telling you anything, with lines you can get a better picture and use a lil TC to hurry things when needed.

You can replace the dots that show the airplane contacts, but it does remove the ship contacts. The line graphics used for the sonar contacts are also used for the torpedo track and PK marker on the attack map, so they "accidentally" got left in.

Damn good summary of the dilemma.

The problem I've always had with "map contacts off/on" is it is too extreme.
With them on, you get GPS like positions of your targets.
With them off, your workload goes way up. Not only do you have to conn your sub, you have to do all the plotting and inputting data into the TDC as well, where a real sub had various people doing those duties.

Some nice middle ground would be nice.

I know there is an "Assisted Plotting" mod for SH3. While not perfect, it does get away from the two extremes. I think I've read where it may work or has been adapted for SH4, but I seem to remember issues with it if used in SH4-I'm not sure.

Personally, I play with contacts on in both SH3 and SH4. I don't think I'm quite ready to play with them off just yet. One day perhaps.

:)

Maybe the solution would be removing the constantly-updating contacts.

Like this:

1 - Option 'no contact update' on: you're on your own, period.

2 - Option off: all sensor stations could have an extra button, where you order it's operator to input current bearing (or range and bearing, like for instance with radar). In that moment and ONLY THEN, one single marking input would appear on the map, identified by station and a number (as you order more updates, the following contacts would receive progressive numbers so you don't get lost). To make it realistic, there could be inacuracies on the drawing of the map marker, and perhaps a minimum hiatus between markings.

That would mean only that your crewmen would be feeding in the navigator with sporadic data, which is both realistic, and prevents the boredom of doing everything yourself.

What do you guys thing? is it doable?

#2 - give the man a cigar for thinking out of the box. CapnScurvy may know if it can be done. Nisgeis may know also.

I want the mark to appear at the range and bearing I have selected. If I make a mistake, I want the mistake on the map. It's part of the reality. If I report to the plotters that the contact is 10 feet of the starboard bow instead of 15 miles ahead, I want the mark 10 feet from me on the map.

And a time stamp! Even if it's taken directly from the stop watch, I want a time stamp.

:yeah:

:nope: Not without access to the code. Even a minor function change that would just put a mark on the map when I push the send range/bearing button would satisfy me.

If we could have the PK marker on the Nav map, we could use it as such. It would plot the point at the range and bearing we have selected, and then you can pencil in your mark right there. Likewise if we could draw on the attack map.

And I'd be willing to pay the same price that was paid for the original game just for that one bit of functionality. (And my wife bought me the metal box collector's edition when it came out.)


Edit:
It occurs to me that I've seen posts in both the SH3 and SH5 forums that seem to point to people editing the .exe. Hrm...

I tried it, and it caused crashes. I never did find out why. I still use the one in SH3.

On the other hand there is always MOBO.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=225

Considering the minimal amount of time I get to play the game, this thread is putting me off the idea of turning the Contacts off!

I have been using RFB 2.0 as I'm sure many of you do. The 'Map Contacts On' is made marginally more difficult due to the fact that the target disappears from the nav-map when using the higher zoom levels, meaning that you cannot get an inch perfect fix (you do not get the actual boat silhouette on the map, only the square). You also only get a rough approximation of his position from the attack map.

A minor point, just thought I'd mention it for those that didn't know, which is probably not many of you. :D

Map contacts off, period.
It prolongs the game's life and cuts down on other entertainment costs!

:D

.

I haven't play RFB. Interesting to know; it sounds about how I have mine set up.

Map Contacts On = More time in the pub.

re
 

I find map contacts off to be more of a challenge but very tedious in addition to that fact that your crew does not distinguish between radar contacts when they detact them so you wont know if you have an SD contact or a SJ contact.There is a mod that removes all contacts on map except for aircraft.

I find a great compromise for realism is leaving cams off but contacts on.Stock contacts are bit much because it lets you know too much info just looking at them TMO's are all black suares dots and lines and only display a name after you ID them.

The sonar lines counter balance the terrible ability of even the "best" sonar operator in the game to keep track when you are submerged.


Having said that, once in a while I like to patrol with cams and contacts off for fun.Yesterday loaded up the mod the only displays planes on the map and went to sea in Jan 1944 out of Fremantle with Gato Class sub(USS Gato actually) running TMO 2.1 with RSRD. I was patroling the Celebes Sea chokepoint below Davao, Phillippines when radar detected a convoy of six ships with 2 escorts.This lead to a 2 1/2 day (game time) battle(2 days in RL, about 8 hours of game time total) battle with multiple attacks submerged and on surface and several tough depth chargings.The convoy was six tankers(3 large, two medium one small) and two very tough Type C escorts.I had two stern Mark 14's left and about a week later in same area encountered 3 large nippon maru tankers(10,000 tons each) and using my last two fish attacked.The tanker was loaded with fuel obviously because it burst into a fireball and sank in about 15 minutes.

The escort's counter attack was rough, pushing me to 400 feet at one point, draining my battery down to 30 percent (due to constant stop and go runs to avoid huge patterns of charges) the final evasion took about 3 hours real time.Doing so without the sonar lines you get with contacts on is tough but rewarding and exciting.

I made it back to fremantle with little of 54,000 tons down in one patrol.Seven tankers plus a lone merchant I sent to the bottom earlier in the patrol.


Anyway, once you are sure you understand about tracking, attacking, evading without contacts, I suggest give it a try if you have time, its a blast but definitely tough.

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/p...054029_595.jpg


http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/p...052854_833.jpg

I started 4 hours ago and just sank an Akita Maru with 3/6 torpedoes at 2,700 yds, with map contacts disabled. The target changed course after my crew announced that they had spotted her. I am using the OTC mod by CapnScurvy. During the attack run, I stopped the game to water plants on my deck, watered part of my lawn that looked thirsty, cut up a chicken, preppred it for frying, and cooked it along with two wings and two drumsticks in my brand, spankin new electric fryer. Plus, I cleaned the kitchen and managed to eat some of what I fried. I also paused the game once to review the OTC tutorial re establishing Aob. :O:

Conclusion. Plan on spending a lots of time if map contacts are disabled. Plus, you never are sure your set up is correct because there is no icon on the attack map to verify accuracy. But, it is a kick to chase and hit a target, as you get a chance to see all of your previous experience come to fruition.