SH5 LET DOWN
 

hi all
im not bad mouthing sh5, i like the sim, just find it annoying having to move the captian around the boat to do tasks, wish they had kept the game play the same as sh3 and 4. why fix something if its not broken ?
i seem to be going back to sh3 more and more. plus i dont like the way it can only be used with a connection, which stops me using it on my laptop when traveling. anyone feel the same ?
PS i also heard of people playing sh3 in multiplayer battles. is this true

cheers

UI mods have been made to bring the SH3 (one also allows SH4 style) of controls back to SH5. check the SH5 MODS forum.

All the functionality of sh3 has been returned to sh5. as for moving around.. honestly I moved the 'free cam' around in sh3 as if I was the captain for immersion purposes.. so I love the first person captain feel of sh5.

The only thing sh3 has now is additional content.. that is it. And sh3 has had alot more time to BUILD that library of content... sh5 is working on it and it will get there and pass it.

I disagree with this statement. Sh3 gameplay is much better IMHO. Mind you I play SH5 occasionally, and like it for different reasons, but I dont belive SH5 comes anywhere close to SH3.:salute:

It just occured to me, that in 10 years from now, people will still be praising SH3 as the best submarine sim, regardless of what's done to improve SH4 or 5. :haha:

sh3
 

the darkwreith.
never knew there was mods for sh5. ill have a look for that.
cheers

Go D/L his megamod. It's nothing short of Kick ass, and has more customizeable user options then you can shake a stick at.
edit: Just make sure you've patched the game through the online patcher. (gu.exe), don't shortcut directly to the exe. At least, not until AFTER you've patched.

I know and its getting slightly ridiculous given the state of the games, most of the die hard sh3 fans act like sh5 is a leper or something...

The irony is it gives a fair number of them, exactly what they seem to want. :O:

edit: realistically, its a combination of bugs and lack of type 9 i think.

Not to beat a dead horse, but anyway, here goes:

1) Shortened campaign (huge step back from SH3!)
2) Only one main sub type (again, a step back)
3) No fully functional AI subs
4) Too many scripted gameplay elements
5) Related to 4, an overly scripted campaign with unrealistic goals
6) Poor immersion factor (compare "Aces of the Deep" - newspapers, the bar, etc)
6) Poor AI out of the box
7) Very awkward interface out of the box
8) Cartoonish characters & gameplay elements
9) Not enough units, and serious difficulty adding new ones so far

What do you mean it's not?! :shifty:

:O:

I wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole..... :shifty:.... for real though, once Iget a computer that can handle it I will be getting Sh5. Im in firm belief with time Sh5 will surpass Sh3 by leaps and bounds.. now if we only could get our hands on the SDK :)

Add to everything that was written here an inept campaign, and let me explain.
I just ended three missions and completed the British Supplies (or whatever it's called) first objective of the game. You know, sink 50K tons on the Eastern Approaches.
In all three missions I never saw one escort. Period. Nobody came at me after sinking ships 50 km off the Brit coast, no plane, no destroyer, nobody. And each of these guys radioed for help... the "Submarine sighted," "I'm going down" kind of messages. During the whole three missions, patrolling on surface in the range of Brit airbases, I was only attacked by 2 planes, which I was able to avoid without much hassle.
This lack of response is a real immersion killer. Whereas in ther GWX campaigns I already had to be on the alert and carefully choose my victims, from fear of being attacked afterwards in shallow water, now I can do whatever I please, without fearing anything.
In the last mission, I sunk about half of the Brit merchant fleet:D when I found a totally unescorted convoy (6 ships), some 100 km off the British coast. After about two hours of attacks (game time) and sinking all of them, partly by deck gun, still nobody cared to answer their calls for help.
Speak about immersion & realism:down:

I'm buying Starforce free Silent Hunter 3 for a little more than 30 bucks than buying SH5 with about the same price.

I got a new computer which I would not pollute with starforce which will eventually kill the Disc drive. It had killed 2 Disc drives in my old PC :dead:. So I haven't been playing for quite a while.

but since you are...

The campaign covers 1939-43 which is the most interesting part of the war and is already longer than the career of 99% of U-Boat commanders, plus there is already a mod which extends the war to 45.


design choice: one fully modelled U-Boat or many partly modeled U-Boats. I don't see anyone saying DCS:A-10 is a failure because it only models...one airplane.
...and no AI subs whatsover in stock SH3.
not true, you can play SH5 exactly as SH3/4.
In SH3, you are ordered to navigate to a point in the ocean, orbit around it for 48 hours, after which you are free to ge anywhere in the world, something which never happened in real life.

In SH5, you are given an area of operation, a goal and a time frame. For example "Drumbeat", sink 50,000 tons in 6 months. Many U-Boat aces were able to reach that goal.

still not perfect, but SH5 is an improvement over SH3 in that area.
does'nt this contradict #4 above? :hmmm:

SH5 is actually the most immersive of the SH series: being able to walk all over the boat, watching your crew moving about, hearing the reports, chatting with your crew, checking the 3d dials, it does'nt get more immersive than that.


the stock SH3 AI was dumb as rocks and easy to evade. Worse, they would fire on one another.

SH5 brings a lot of innovations to the AI, alert states, scripting. The AI in the IRAI mod is one of the best I have seen in any submarine sim.


the SH5 interface brings a lot of innovations and is actually one of the best part of the game: no longer having your scope locked to the middle of the ships, being able to directly input a solution in the TDC, being able to shift between stations while paused, incorporating the attack map in other stations.

now if you are talking about the fact that SH3 has little dials while SH5 has little bars, there are already mods out there that allow to change the UI to whatever you want. In my case, I just got rid of the interface altogether and I get my info from actually reading the dials in the boat, as a real skipper would..:ping:
aren't you repeating #4 for a 3rd time..:hmmm:

SH3 has 3d crew in the boat that you can interact with. SH5 has better made 3d crew that you can interact with.

I will give you that point.

so sh3 wins one category (#10), SH5 wins 5 (#3, #5, #6, #7, #8) and the rest are ties.

SH5 rules. :woot:

SH5 rules. :woot:[/QUOTE]

This is a typo, he meant SH3:O:

What is the IRAI mod? Is it included in the MegaMod?

yes, its included in TDW's Magnum Opus.

Good point. On the othe hand IABL raises honest points, and you answered with honest counterpoints, which is refreshing in this web world of "Mine rulez, yours sux!"

I would, however, like to address what I've seen so far of both sides.

This is good news. SH1 allowed the player to begin a career in any month of the war. No sim before or since has matched that, though SH3 does so with a mod, and I'm hoping SH5 will someday.

On the other hand this sim isn't titled SH:Type VII. That said, I fully understand and support their choice. I disagree with it, but I understand and support it.

On the other hand, for the person who likes to play in the Type II or Type IX, SH5 has nothing to offer at all, so it's easy to understand why that person might prefer the older game. It's also easy to understand why that player may find SH5 to be disappointing, despite all the improvements someone who plays it can point to.

Also true. On the other hand that was one of the improvements asked for and promised. SH5 is full of "improvements" that aren't quite realized or finished. The biggest disappointment seems to be the flaws left over from previous versions that should have been fixed, but are still there.

In SH3, you are ordered to navigate to a point in the ocean, orbit around it for 48 hours, after which you are free to ge anywhere in the world, something which never happened in real life.[/quote]
Actually it's only 24 hours. I've explained many times why that is, but the bottom line is you're right, it shouldn't be that way.

On the other hand no u-boat kaleun was ever tasked to sink a set amount of tonnage in any time-frame.

No, it's just bad in a different way. :O:

Not really. The immersion IABL spoke of there involved what happened between patrols.

Watching your severely limited crew walk about (though there is a mod in the works to fix that)? Have the same conversation over and over and over? Boost morale by feeding them properly?

In SH3 you can check the 3D dials as well.

All too true.

Have you ever played AOTD?

I skipped the rest of your points for the simple reason that they're all valid and all true.

It shouldn't be about winning or losing. The fact is that people who love SH5 have very good reasons for doing so. The other fact is that people who dislike SH5 have very good reasons for doing so, and that shouldn't be. It's true that some of the people who praise SH3 have devolved to the level of fanboys, but it's also true that some of the people who praise SH5 are no different. And it's true that some of the people who stick with SH3 simply want the things that SH5 still doesn't offer.

Not quite yet, but it should and it probably will.

I'll just preface my response in saying that my previous post was based on having acutally tried some of the latest mods for this game. So some of the arguments you have, i'm going to go ahead and cross off your list now.


here goes:

Now extended to 45 I believe.

No argument there. Ive always been partial to type 9's.

And SH3 has these? *cough*

You'd have to elaborate there. Thats vauge to me.

Unrealistic goals are adjustable, and probably already have. You know, i have to ask, has it ever occured to anyone your not supposed to reach 200,000 tons or whatever it is? That's what Germany would need to win that scenario. It's always been my sneaky suspicion that by lowering the goals, you alter the scenario where Germany always wins. It's not supposed to win!

Not Das boot enough for you? Really? The das boot experience is all uboat fans ramble on about. Here you have a game, an entire game based after Das Boot, whats not to like?

Pretty sure thats fixed. TDW's done alot of work on that, at the script level. Not just hacking sensors like you are I would have done.

THAT is most definatly fixed. TDW's UI, IMO, is better then 3 or 4. Its just different. If your stuck in the past, and expect things to be specific ways, then i guess everything will appear awkward to you.

Everybody who's partial to one SH game, always says the other ones look cartoonish.

No argument there.


Look, its not my intention to sit here and defend Sh5. I'm not even playing it, i don't even have it installed right now. BUT, i DID try it, WITH the latest mods (TDW mega mod beta). I think all im really saying, (and this is probably because i've done alot of modding myself), is to not knock the game until you've tried it with the latest mods. Given the amount and type of work done on the game, I think it's way past the time to evaluate the game at its vanilla value.

Aside from that, If you'll recall, SH3 sucked balls in its first couple years too. Everyone seems to forget that. Only there wasn't much to compare it to at the time, so everything has now become rose tinted glasses with SH3.

Now if you'll excuse me, i have to get back to working on SH4.