[REQ] info on RL torpedo damage
 

I'm interested in some data and opinions on torpedo damage on ships, in particular the size of the hole and the extent of damage beyond the area that was hit directly. Would damage be contained to the compartment it struck (let's assume it hitting midway between bulkheads) or would the bulkheads separating the compartment be likely to suffer damage as well?

Any chance of a torpedo striking on the bow or stern damaging the engines, maybe by transmission of vibrations?

How consistent is this damage? Would damage observed in 1 case be similar to damage observed on a ship of the same class with a similar hit, or would it vary quite dramatically?

Usually a hole from a torpedo is very large, and will span two or more compartments. Compartmentation on a modern ship will contain outboard sections that are smaller, just to help isolate the damage. Here is an account of the damage to SS Ohio, taken during Operation Pedestal, the supplying of Malta.

The whole story, including bomb hits and near misses (which also make holes in the hull, letting in more water) can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Ohio

Unfortunately my copies of Conway's Warship series with pictures and descriptions of torpedo and shell hits are in storage at the moment, or I could give you a lot more information.

I have a photo of the area after a torpedo hit somewhere. Gotta search it. Way different than just a hole. A lot of metal gets bend inward.
Bulkheads will fail if close by the point of impact. Either by direct explosive force or by rupturing due to physical forces like bending and tearing.

If the drive shaft gets damaged badly you are in a world of pain. Imagine a giant propeller shaft in a confined space torn free of its bearings...:o

Vibrations will cause damage. I recall reading that the German cruiser Ad. Hipper had to stop for immediate repairs somewhere between Scandinavia and England due to a faulty shaft bearing.

Water seepage will occur, too. After some time electric cables etc. will draw water like wick. Again, Hipper had to cut a lot of cables to fire control after some compartment down below had taken water to prevent massive shorts.

Cheers!

Chris

Since we're on the chapter of RL torpedo damage and such, could some of the more experienced guys tell us more of what depth should a torpedo be launched ? I had heard that the heavier the ship, the greater depth the torpedo must be launched, and what about weather, would rough seas affect torps launched at a small depth ?:salute:

EDIT: Here are some fantastic shots of HMS Thane's damage suffered from torpedo attack from U-1172. Just scroll down to the bottom of the page.

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....E_Gllery_2.htm

Impressive story on the Ohio. :up:

Pretty amazing that the force of the blast got directed straight through and out the other side. :o

So it's pretty safe to say that damage ranged far beyond the immediate area of the blast?

I know it's been said plenty of times, but the torpedoes in the game seem wimpy. Not by visual splash or damage value, but the area they affect. Hit the engine room in the center, and that's it, you take out that engineroom. What about, with a tanker or warship, the 2nd engineroom on the port/starboard side? Imho damage should be more widespread.

Thank you all for the replys, any more info is more than welcome. :salute:

A quick look through the "Allied Merchants Hit" section of www.uboat.net gives the following:

Medium Merchant (5590 tons): http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/2220.html

15,000-ton liner took 1 torpedo to stop, but 3 more to sink, plus some shellfire.
http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/739.html

A 10,000-ton tanker that also took 4 torpedoes to sink.
http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/1843.html

15,500-ton liner sank after only one torpedo.
http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/406.html

I know that sunk ships usually can't give proper damage reports, but I thought this would illustrate the variety of sinkings. I have info on a Japanese merchant that sank after being hit by a dud torpedo, and another that took 6 torpedoes and 10 hours of work by the submarine to finally put down.

a typical U-boat torpedo had a warhead packing 280 kg (617 lbs) of TNT/HND/AL (a mixture of hexanitrophenylamine, trinitrotoluene and aluminum). That packs a lot of punch:

http://museum.gov.ns.ca/mma/wrecks/p...full/41344.jpg

Hey! That's exactly the picture I was talking about! :yeah:

found this report of the torpedoing of the USS Kearny in 41 which has a lot of info on the damage:

http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Shi...ageReport.html

http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Shi...tDD-432_02.jpg

suggest you may wish to google/you tube HMAS COLLINS torpedo test footage on the river class [mod. Leander] ex-?HMAS TORRENS.

Mk48 detonated under the hull. snapped it in two.

sorry, i dont have the link.

ADCAP is a far cry from a G7 or mk 14. :lol:

Thank you all, especially the written reports give valuable info. It is invaluable to turn a "sim" into a sim. :salute:


In the game, radius is set to 3m (10ft) minimum and 7m (23ft) maximum. Max damage is applied to anything within 3m of impact, and damage drops off to a max radius of 7m.

I'd say the max radius needs to be extended to "simulate" damage beyond the impact zone (pressure wave entering hull through hole, shards of metal send flying, vibrations damaging engine and shafts, etc). :hmmm:

I just don't know how much I trust the damage model of this game to be able to simulate differentiated compartmental damage. Everything seems to be on a "Damage Point" scale, and once the whole ship accrues enough damage points, it sinks. There seems to be no dynamic damage based on areas of impact. No flooding, listing, etc.

Why do you think I'm asking?
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...boxexample.png
I can tell you haven't tried BRF yet. ;)

Do you think it can be made ?

Such a damage like in some of those photographs seem to be too much complicated to be represented ingame... at least i think so :)

the 3d damage ingame is a single file with textures, afaik.

Visually yes, but we can tweak to make the damage model more realistic.

Expanding the range within which damage occurs is just 1 step though. Another would be tweaking the values for the zones (the boxes you see in the image above), which I did for BRF, and I think the whole HP system needs a rework. Already increased hull HP for ships so you stand a chance of sinking them through flooding, but the HP for the individual compartments need attention too, and the torpedo damage needs to be balanced to that.

Finally, you can rework the zones.cfg, the file which contains the values for the zones. Now, a lot of ships use the same zones, but in reality each type of ship has a unique behaviour. You could add more zone types in the zones.cfg and use Goblin to edit the zones used by the ship models, to get far more unique modeling and better behaviour.

Ok about that i had no doubts, but what about the 3D model changes ?

I support the idea explosions in SH suck, as well as parts of the ships that fly away like in hollywood explosions, but improving this seems really hard to me.

Btw i'm no expert at all. i was just asking for more info on his intentions because it's an eventual mod that i'd really be fond of

I'm no 3D artist or particle master, so the visual stuff I leave to someone else. The actual damage modeling though, that is something I can work on.

I understand. Badly needed for sure ;)

the problem with realistic damage is that its impossible to estimate, if you hit a ship inbetween bulkheads with bulkhead doors shut then it would fracture / blow the bulkheads out with the blast preassure. if you did the same thing with doors open then bulkheads may still be damaged but some of that blast preassure would go though any openings within the boat and vent out somewhere...

luck of the draw if you ask me