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-   -   QUESTION FOR LAWYERS : can we take any legal actions against UBI ?? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165105)

fasol20 03-16-10 10:54 AM
QUESTION FOR LAWYERS : can we take any legal actions against UBI ??
 
And what chance do we have , is it worth trying ? There must be thousands of us.... I am from europe I guess it should be easier in US what do you think ???

Pappy55 03-16-10 10:58 AM
In another post I made I said there is a law here in the UK regarding not delivering a service..

Buying software and agreeing to the EULA is basically a contract between you and the publisher.

If you have paid for the software and they are doing doing their part I think somwhere you have a case..

I know there was a lawsuit over EA's drm.

Faamecanic 03-16-10 11:01 AM
This is brought up with every new SH release that I can remember..... but I think SH5 really deserves a CA lawsuit. This DRM is insane.

Coldcall 03-16-10 11:01 AM
No i dont think so. You are entitled to your money back on a refund if the game's access is still blocked even when you meet the internet connection criteria, but i cant see how you could sue them.

Just take your game back to the store for a refund. Easy enough.

PS: Only reason i am holding onto my copy is because of the superb job the modders have done already within a couple weeks. If I thought the game was going to remain in its current state (more or less), I'd have returned it immediately after getting locked out by DRM. Im also hoping that eventually Ubisoft cant be bothered with hosting the DRm for it anymore and release a "freedom" patch.

Echo76 03-16-10 11:05 AM
Any thoughts on STEAM, are they obliged to refund as this product is non-functional?

Pappy55 03-16-10 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo76 (Post 1318629)
Any thoughts on STEAM, are they obliged to refund as this product is non-functional?
Good luck with that..

I am trying to get a different non functional game refunded from them and they wont do it.

Fishu 03-16-10 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldcall (Post 1318624)
Just take your game back to the store for a refund. Easy enough.
That's not possible where I live, so it's not that simple; 1. the law explicitly revokes the right to return the game, 2. the stores over here haven't read the book on customer service - what is not required by the law is neither part of the service.

PortoFerro 03-16-10 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo76 (Post 1318629)
Any thoughts on STEAM, are they obliged to refund as this product is non-functional?
They are refunding the GOLD version because of the swastikas in there, however only in Germany.

Pappy55 03-16-10 11:22 AM
If we have a case in the UK it should be covered in here somwhere.

The Sale of Goods Act
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/Acts/acts1995..._19950028_en_1
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatut..._19790054_en_1

I just cant be arsed to read through it after a long day at work.

AVGWarhawk 03-16-10 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishu (Post 1318651)
That's not possible where I live, so it's not that simple; 1. the law explicitly revokes the right to return the game, 2. the stores over here haven't read the book on customer service - what is not required by the law is neither part of the service.

You were then made aware of the law concerning purchasing a game? It is a personal risk if one wishes to purchase any game knowing the law concerning returning of the game if not satisfied. Not much you can do there legally. :hmmm:

Letum 03-16-10 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faamecanic (Post 1318622)
This is brought up with every new SH release that I can remember..... but I think SH5 really deserves a CA lawsuit. This DRM is insane.
Well, the last lawsuit with SH3 and other games with Starforce was a
success in so far as Ubi agreed to pay up out of court.

Letum 03-16-10 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappy55 (Post 1318673)
If we have a case in the UK it should be covered in here somwhere.

The Sale of Goods Act
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/Acts/acts1995..._19950028_en_1

I just cant be arsed to read through it after a long day at work.
No, it is not covered by the sale of goods act.
That doesn't mean that there isn't another another act that is applicable.

brandtryan 03-16-10 11:25 AM
Ok--I'm a little confused as to where everyone is from. I'm from the USA--can I take my copy back to Walmart??

Coldcall 03-16-10 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishu (Post 1318651)
That's not possible where I live, so it's not that simple; 1. the law explicitly revokes the right to return the game, 2. the stores over here haven't read the book on customer service - what is not required by the law is neither part of the service.
Where is "over here"? I'm sorry if thats the case. Bloody outrageous!!

VirtualVikingX 03-16-10 11:26 AM
I am a lawyer. And I would suggest that you start reading the EULA. Probably something there about the OSP. And anyhow, by Norwegian (and probably most EU-contries) law you can only claim what you have paid for the game. You cant go to court citing unlawfull terms of contract when you bought the game knowing about the DRM/OSP. And what would you demand instead? That they remove the OSP? The court cant decide that, we guys live in a free world.

And its not illegal for UBI to have a EULA (contract between you and them) that requieres you to have a permanent internet connection to play. Its a free market and this is a entertainment product, not a nessesity.

Compare it to iTunes/iPod-binding and DVD-zones. Controversial but not illegal.

Pappy55 03-16-10 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letum (Post 1318679)
Well, the last lawsuit with SH3 and other games with Starforce was a
success in so far as Ubi agreed to pay up out of court.
That site has all the uk laws on thre is one regarding services online or whatever but i forgot what its called/

TDK1044 03-16-10 11:27 AM
Always a good laugh for the Moderators....how long will it take for the first "I want to file a lawsuit against Ubisoft" post.

I seem to remember that John Channing always used to win the bet. How did you do this time, John? :DL

BigBANGtheory 03-16-10 11:27 AM
I posted this in another thread, but it seems appropriate for this topic also. Bottom line return the game to the store and let the UBI argue it out with the likes of Amazon...

Shops have a policy of 'do not accept returns on opened software' for obvious reasons, however a shops policy does not effect your consumer rights (which is dependent on where you live of course).

To put it bluntly if you take an opened game back to a store the manager will (unless instructed by their head office) not budge an inch. What you need to do is write a letter to the retailer's head office explaining that you wish to return the game for the following reasons with proof of purchase in return for a full refund and their failure to act on this within 28days is a breach of your consumer rights.

In the UK this is called:
Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994

I speak from personal experience, in my case I returned a retail version of Crysis cos the DRM system stopped the game working with my DVD drive. I got the usual sh*t from the store manager but 2 weeks later after writing them a letter explaining how they breached my consumer rights not only did I get a full refund I additionally got vouchers totalling the value of the game.

Most people do not understand their consumer rights and are taken advantage of. Now you know different, exercise your rights if you feel its the correct course of action for you.

Coldcall 03-16-10 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letum (Post 1318684)
No, it is not covered by the sale of goods act.
That doesn't mean that there isn't another another act that is applicable.
There would be something under "description of goods" type clause which would entitle a return in the UK. Ubsioft sort of shoot themsleves in the foot by making a big deal on the box about requiring an internet connection. So they make the consumer jump through that hoop but still fail to provide the service as described on the box.

I've not heard of anyone in the Uk having probs returning SH5, and I've seen quite a few posts on people having done it through amazon or play.com. There's no doubt that distributors will lean on Ubisoft if this starts costing them money in extra admin costs/returns etc...

Coldcall 03-16-10 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBANGtheory (Post 1318693)
I posted this in another thread, but it seems appropriate for this topic also. Bottom line return the game to the store and let the UBI argue it out with the likes of Amazon...

Shops have a policy of 'do not accept returns on opened software' for obvious reasons, however a shops policy does not effect your consumer rights (which is dependent on where you live of course).

To put it bluntly if you take an opened game back to a store the manager will (unless instructed by their head office) not budge an inch. What you need to do is write a letter to the retailer's head office explaining that you wish to return the game for the following reasons with proof of purchase in return for a full refund and their failure to act on this within 28days is a breach of your consumer rights.

In the UK this is called:
Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994

I speak from personal experience, in my case I returned a retail version of Crysis cos the DRM system stopped the game working with my DVD drive. I got the usual sh*t from the store manager but 2 weeks later after writing them a letter explaining how they breached my consumer rights not only did I get a full refund I additionally got vouchers totalling the value of the game.

Most people do not understand their consumer rights and are taken advantage of. Now you know different, exercise your rights if you feel its the correct course of action for you.
Absolutely, I've returned many games in UK. It doesnt matter that retailers put caveats on some types of return, you have statutory rights and their caveats cannot over-ride those legislated rights. They might make a fuss but you will get your money back, just dont be put off because of the hassle.


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