Lost and Found
 

The one good thing that I can say about SH5 is the bonus disk that came with it. I will reserve judgment on the actual game until I can play it properly because I need to buy a new video card and power supply. Presently I have too much lag because of my current video card Nvidia GeForce 8400.

This video is a thought provoking documentary about the USS Lagarto that was sunk by a Japanese warship. Almost 60 years to the day after she entered eternal patrol she was found by divers and it gives clues as to what the brave men were trying to do. We all know it takes a rare breed of courageous men to volunteer to be a submariner and it makes me wonder how many of us who play this game could of and would have done the same as they did. Probably the same ratio, about 5%.

When you play this game and this doesn't work right and that needs to be changed, than try to remember those who gave their all so that we have the freedom to complain, the right to make choices and the privilege to speak our minds. I also think it would be all together fitting and proper to have a thread here on Subsim dedicated to the heroes of WW2 so that we can add video links and other such important information so as to keep their memory alive.

If you care to, join me in saluting all veterans and active duty personnel fighting for freedom where ever they may be. :salute:

For those of you who have not bought the game yet you can see the video here. http://thaiwreckdiver.com/lagarto.htm

I will certainly join you in that salute Paul, and these were excellent thoughts on this you have stated.:salute:
I too enjoyed the video, and thank UBI for it's inclusion with SH5. And yes indeed, these men were a rare breed. And lest we forget the sacrifice they made, the one's who never came home to our beloved country that they served and died for. And it was for us whom this sacrifice was for, so that we could live on in freedom.

As I once heard said, "They gave up all their tomorrows, so that we could have a today."

Very well put Paul.

God bless em all.

~SALUTE~

You do realize that distributing or owning Silent Hunter with a swastika inside will get you to jail right?

Not in all countries.

Ok just what does this statement have to do with this thread?

According to this article, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-dogs-fur.html the law would apply if you publicly display the swastika.

So unless you are playing Silent Hunter on a 52" LCD on your front yard singing "Niedersachsemarsch" with a fully loaded luger, I do not believe anything will happen to you.

It is not like the Gestapo TV police force their way into everyones home and demand to see what you are watching

If that were the case than they would have to build more jails just to put all the Neo-Nazi Skinheads in the big house !

When it comes to distributing the swastika they could start with those employed at Wikipedia for this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

As a side note:
Here in the USA the veterans groups like the VFW and the American Legion have been trying for years to make it a law not to desecrate the Amerian Flag to no avail. But our bleeding heart liberal politicians believe that it violates your freedom of speech. :nope:

I better stop now....I am starting to get a little wound up

+ 1

Gabby, please explain!

Good for them as I haven't noticed the avid flag wavers being any smarter when it comes to "how" you respect the flag. There are rules you know, about where, when, and how the flag is displayed in public. :salute:

EDIT: I remember soon after 9/11 during a ball game where little flags had been handed out for the "God Bless America" singing, finded hundreds of those flags all over the ground with the rest of the garbage! The people are just clueless now.

Yes lets honour the memory of all the brave souls who fought in all wars
no matter what nationalty.
Lets not say for freedom,liberty,justice as those words mean different
things to different people

Easy. The OP expressed how he wishes allied forces to be remembered as the bringers of freedom.

Well, here in the Axis countries (Hungary to be precise), the allied armies/airforce did not bring any of the aforementioned freedom, but instead unleashed previously unknown destruction, misery, mass murders, communist governments, terrorist state police.

History is codified by law even nowadays. Even the UK has a law that war crimes could only have been commited by Germany.

I have no problem with respecting worthy opponents, but freedom?.. We have far less of it since the end of World War 2.

Whatever...........:hmmm:

Alright, so going back to 'the truth' weren't there approx 550,000 Hungarian Jews murdered up to 1944? Exactly what level of 'previsously unknown misery, mass murder' etcetera was delivered by the allied forces? Because it must have had one hell of an impact to eclipse Hungary's contribution to the attempted extermination of the Jews? Unless you weren't counting the whole holocaust thing.

"Up to"? If you knew even a little bit about history, you'd have used the word "from". Hungary was the last shelter of the askenazim.

I'm not even sure what do you want to accomplish by reciting holocaust laws here. I was referring to Hungary, not Israel. :hmmm:

I think he meant either allied air raids for example destruction of Dresden or ending up to be Soviet puppet state. Soviet Union was one of allied countries don't forget that.

EDIT: Great I'm repeating things allready well know. I really should go to sleep a little bit.

That, and for example the fact that after the war, one of Hungary's first international aid requests were several hundred thousands of abortion pills.

Thanks for "liberation" and "freedom", sure. :shifty:

I see you editted your post, so I have also editted my post. Your original 'QED' meant nothing. What laws are you talking about that I recited?

If he wants to say that, he can, but he hasn't yet. I was just saying that Hungary wasn't a free and liberal place, depending on who you were. As I clearly don't know anything about history, I am still unclear what it was that unleashed previously unknown levels of mass murder in Hungary. He seems to be saying that Hungary was a happy la-la-land for all right up until the allies 'freed' them.

"Well, here in the Axis countries (Hungary to be precise), the allied armies/airforce did not bring any of the aforementioned freedom, but instead unleashed previously unknown destruction, misery, mass murders, communist governments, terrorist state police."

Did I not?

Huh? The world never was an universally free and liberal place, it is not, and it will never be. On the other hand, Hungary was a prospering democratic republic. She has rebuilt herself since the "democratic", then communist revolutionary government demobilized our army and invited our war enemies to take 2/3 of our territory. They were convicted of high treason (in their absence, as they fled the country with all the money from the National Bank) from 1920-1945. Today, they are revered heroes.

Even the jews of Europe immigrated here because Hungary was the only country on the continent that which welcomed them despite the the aforementioned communist terror government of 1918 which almost completely consisted of them. If this was not a liberal country, then there wasn't any. There wasn't even any atrocities until Germany effectively annexed us in 1944. Regent Horthy wasn't even tried in Nuremberg due to Stalin's express request!

Then came the freedom-bearer allies, who changed our island of peace into a soviet puppet state, with lasting effects.

Did you know about the 1956 hungarian rebellion? Did you know that the current (2006-2010) government still sings the Internationale ("...Of the past let us wipe the slate clean...")? Did you know that I am on the police counter-terrorism department's watch list just because I'm acquinted with an independent newspaper's crew? (I've seen the papers for it, let's not get into how) Did you know that we have a law that codifies that the hungarian soviet state police (ÁVO) never commited murders, tortures, and cruel interrogations? Did you know that this law was conveniently enacted when a victim recognized one of his torturers, and wanted to put him before the law?

Exactly how are we living in a more free/liberal country?.. (Sidenote: the liberal party is on 1% popularity according to the current census. This is how the voting people rate their mischiefs.)

I dunno, maybe the red army?.. These doctrines were officially spread on the front, and hungarians were treated no differently than germans.

I do. You could beg to differ, but I probably know a bit more about my country than you do, if you don't mind me... or let's skip this discussion altogether, there's no point in arguing here. For us, every U-boot sunk meant a thousand civilians who directly suffered the soviet-allied terror/freedom.

:o Abortion pills? Wow! I couldn't even imagine any more urgent need...

Life under pan-european national socialism would have been no picnic either, you know.
The western allied powers weren't politically able to claim all of Europe when the Soviet Union had played such an instrumental part in defeating Nazi Germany. Insisting on it might well have led to more war, and that would truly have been ugly and quite possibly nuclear.
It was a very unfortunate outcome for eastern Europe as a whole, of which most had a considerably harder time than Hungary. The exception was, of course, the uprising in 1956. Had other eastern-bloc countries tried the same, they would have fared no better.
The unpleasant fact remains that, during the war, Hungary did help to deport a great many jews. It, like many other countries, had fascist tendencies at the time, and antisemitism/racism was widespread. It's still around today, mostly slumbering just beneath the surface.
In Hungary, it's currently the gypsy population that bears the brunt of it, but there is still also quite a bit of antisemitism.

Links for your perusal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungari...ocialist_Party
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_Cross_Party
and something much more recent (2007-2009):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magyar_Garda
and some pictures of them:
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...Xl13V/610x.jpg
http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,952214,00.jpg
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/images/jobbik.jpg
and their backers, who are still a legitimate political party today:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobbik
http://thefastertimes.com/protofasci...__470x3580.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...7Pgvp/610x.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:JobbikPlakat2009.jpg
(election poster featuring the slogan "Hungary belongs to Hungarians")