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New Afghanistan policy

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...fghanistan-war

Well, what did you think of the speech?

If we're going to set a timeline, I say get rid of all these silly RoE and let the troops do their job. IMO. But now that I think about the RoE thingy, that didn't work out so well for the soviets.:dead: Nobody plays meaner than the Russians. I say we just build a big wall around the place and say nobody leaves. I think that would be cheaper. They get there islamic utopia and we keep them contained, away from everybody else. If they climb over the wall, kill them on the spot.:yeah: Kinda like hotel kali-fornia.

There was a speech? I slept thru it. :D

Just kiddin'

So far, the policy outlines look very much like what the Republican plan was.

Where there is a flaw is in the unfortunate fact that Afghanistan does not have a popular consciousness as a nation state. I expect us to have trouble there. Afghanistan is less a nation than it is a reservation for assorted hill tribes. Neighborhood security is not bestowed by any national institution, but only among familial and clan ties -- it's your valley against all the rest of the world, especially the immediate neighborhood, and it ain't pretty. Consequently Afghanistan is a very low-security, balkanized place, and we must be working on that close-in level, not on the level of a Kabul government that too many tribesmen give less than a damn about and trust very little.

BTW is Obama shipping his bad habits to Afghanistan?

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...anista-002.jpg

Why pulling oiutn then when you could pull out now. The effect is the same. The two years inbetween will not make chnages to Afghanistan.

It's all face-saving only, I think. And troops will pay with their blood for that. I hope they die happy.

Quote:

US officials said Obama wants almost all the US troops out before the end of his first term in office in January 2013,

My aren't we confident.:O:

Quote:

Gibbs said the president did not want to leave the problem to his successor.

Sounds like they're planning a Grover Cleveland. :haha:

Get out now.

And close the door behind you.
NO MORE INVASIONS BY ARMIES OF "REFUGEES"!

Maybe you can do something constructive like re-integrating them back into THEIR OWN SOCIETIES, and out of ours.

All HOPE is lost for any CHANGE.

Fail. :yeah:

just remember - YOU voted for him :har::har::har::har:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Padvotke (Post 1212210)

Ordinary time we observe the parody of democracy in USA. When candidate who declared alternative program, after ellections shows up to be strenghless marionette, continously obeying long time established shadow government plans.

They're what I refer to as Acting Presidents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet (Post 1212149)

All HOPE is lost for any CHANGE.

Fail. :yeah:

just remember - YOU voted for him :har::har::har::har:

Still better than McCain.

This will be Vietnam 2: Electronic Boogaloo. I don't understand why this isn't blazingly obvious to Obama.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee (Post 1212223)

This will be Vietnam 2: Electronic Boogaloo. I don't understand why this isn't blazingly obvious to Obama.

Yeh, true that. I only saw parts of the speech, but it's optimistic tone reminded me of the movie Downfall (you know, the part where Hitler is commanding imaginary troops and is still thinking germany wins the war).

The bit I don't understand is the announcement of an additional 30,000 troops allied to a timescale for withdrawal.

What's the point?

Not often a newspaper comment puts something so damn well:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...664753,00.html

Quote:

Searching in Vain for the Obama Magic

Never before has a speech by President Barack Obama felt as false as his Tuesday address announcing America's new strategy for Afghanistan. It seemed like a campaign speech combined with Bush rhetoric -- and left both dreamers and realists feeling distraught.
One can hardly blame the West Point leadership. The academy commanders did their best to ensure that Commander-in-Chief Barack Obama's speech would be well-received.
Just minutes before the president took the stage inside Eisenhower Hall, the gathered cadets were asked to respond "enthusiastically" to the speech. But it didn't help: The soldiers' reception was cool.
One didn't have to be a cadet on Tuesday to feel a bit of nausea upon hearing Obama's speech. It was the least truthful address that he has ever held. He spoke of responsibility, but almost every sentence smelled of party tactics. He demanded sacrifice, but he was unable to say what it was for exactly.
An additional 30,000 US soldiers are to march into Afghanistan -- and then they will march right back out again. America is going to war -- and from there it will continue ahead to peace. It was the speech of a Nobel War Prize laureate.
Just in Time for the Campaign
For each troop movement, Obama had a number to match. US strength in Afghanistan will be tripled relative to the Bush years, a fact that is sure to impress hawks in America. But just 18 months later, just in time for Obama's re-election campaign, the horror of war is to end and the draw down will begin. The doves of peace will be let free.
The speech continued in that vein. It was as though Obama had taken one of his old campaign speeches and merged it with a text from the library of ex-President George W. Bush. Extremists kill in the name of Islam, he said, before adding that it is one of the "world's great religions." He promised that responsibility for the country's security would soon be transferred to the government of President Hamid Karzai -- a government which he said was "corrupt." The Taliban is dangerous and growing stronger. But "America will have to show our strength in the way that we end wars," he added.
It was a dizzying combination of surge and withdrawal, of marching to and fro. The fast pace was reminiscent of plays about the French revolution: Troops enter from the right to loud cannon fire and then they exit to the left. And at the end, the dead are left on stage.
Obama's Magic No Longer Works
But in this case, the public was more disturbed than entertained. Indeed, one could see the phenomenon in a number of places in recent weeks: Obama's magic no longer works. The allure of his words has grown weaker.
It is not he himself who has changed, but rather the benchmark used to evaluate him. For a president, the unit of measurement is real life. A leader is seen by citizens through the prism of their lives -- their job, their household budget, where they live and suffer. And, in the case of the war on terror, where they sometimes die.
Political dreams and yearnings for the future belong elsewhere. That was where the political charmer Obama was able to successfully capture the imaginations of millions of voters. It is a place where campaigners -- particularly those with a talent for oration -- are fond of taking refuge. It is also where Obama set up his campaign headquarters, in an enormous tent called "Hope."
In his speech on America's new Afghanistan strategy, Obama tried to speak to both places. It was two speeches in one. That is why it felt so false. Both dreamers and realists were left feeling distraught.
The American president doesn't need any opponents at the moment. He's already got himself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna (Post 1212278)

The bit I don't understand is the announcement of an additional 30,000 troops allied to a timescale for withdrawal.

What's the point?

The pullout timetable is to appease the liberal ostriches, and give Hope to the Taliban that all they need to do is lay low 18 months and they can move back in. :nope:

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee (Post 1212104)

So much for freedom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens (Post 1212301)

The pullout timetable is to appease the liberal ostriches, and give Hope to the Taliban that all they need to do is lay low 18 months and they can move back in. :nope:

Precisley the reason no timeline has been set... .untill now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JU_88 (Post 1212310)

So much for freedom

Indeed. We have our freedom from them, and they have their freedom from us. Fair deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna (Post 1212278)

The bit I don't understand is the announcement of an additional 30,000 troops allied to a timescale for withdrawal.

What's the point?

Supposedly so they can go on the offensive for the last 18 months, and also train the afghan military and police to defend themselves. (hmmmm)

Same was done in Vietnam by Nixon in 1973, he anounced that the South Vietnamese army was strong enough to defend Saigon, and with drew the US military - but the south govenment collpased in 75. (two years was pretty good going though)

But in the case of Vietnam the majority of the population where behind Ho Chi Mihns communist govenment anyway, so there was never any hope for the South & the U.S. That is ultimatly why the U.S failed in Vietnam.
(And I am not going to argue about this fact either, that is what i have read, so if you dont belive it - I dont care)

I dont know how it will work in Afgahnistan. I guess it partly depends on how far the the Taliban have been pushed back, and partly how well the 'hearts & minds' thing has paid off on this occasion.....

Time will tell anyway. i just hope the loss of human life is minimal.

I dident really make this connection untill now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Spiegel

Just in Time for the Campaign

For each troop movement, Obama had a number to match. US strength in Afghanistan will be tripled relative to the Bush years, a fact that is sure to impress hawks in America. But just 18 months later, just in time for Obama's re-election campaign, the horror of war is to end and the draw down will begin. The doves of peace will be let free

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...664753,00.html